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Alcock and Brown

Old 19th May 2019, 01:28
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Was that talk in Canada? Tony "Buzzy" Alcock was OC29 back in F4 days

Yes in St.John's. He's s guest of the committee organizing the commemoration.
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Old 19th May 2019, 07:01
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An excellent and detailed account of the flight can be read at "The Aviation History On-Line Museum".

Captain John Alcock and Lieutenant Arthur Whitten Brown

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Old 19th May 2019, 07:10
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Were mechanics also on the Alcock and Brown flight? Ross and Keith Smith's Vimy had Bennett and Shiers on board as well, and their extraordinary bravery is often overlooked.
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Old 19th May 2019, 07:22
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"All things considered, the Vimy was a mechanical piece of crap. Lindbergh's aircraft was mechanically and aerodynamically superior to the Vimy".

Others have replied to this and I agree with them, you only have to note the pace of developments in aviation to realise that 8 years is a long time. 10 years before A and B crossed the Atlantic, Bleriot won 1000 for being the first to fly across the English Channel.
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Old 19th May 2019, 09:16
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Originally Posted by cooperplace View Post
Were mechanics also on the Alcock and Brown flight? Ross and Keith Smith's Vimy had Bennett and Shiers on board as well, and their extraordinary bravery is often overlooked.
No.

Mechanics would have been of limited use on board Alcock and Brown's non-stop transatlantic flight, whereas they would have earned their keep many times over on Ross and Keith Smith's 27-day, 18-stop London to Darwin marathon.
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Old 19th May 2019, 09:37
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Second Lt. A. Whitten Brown 10th November 1915

Second shoot down or it might have been engine trouble depends which account you read, either way resulted in serious injuries, capture and eventual repatriation due to his injuries.

Hopefully one of these links works -

http://www.pprune.org/showthread.php...errerid=301760

Harold William Medlicott 11th Feb 1893 21st May 1918

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Old 19th May 2019, 10:53
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
No.

Mechanics would have been of limited use on board Alcock and Brown's non-stop transatlantic flight, whereas they would have earned their keep many times over on Ross and Keith Smith's 27-day, 18-stop London to Darwin marathon.
Hi Dave,
yes indeed, that's a considerable under-statement. Bennett and Shiers performed with immense distinction and bravery; without them the flight would not have been successful. Long story, for another day.
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Old 20th May 2019, 01:50
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If anyone wants more detail about the flight read Brown's book, Flying the Atlantic in Sixteen Hours, with a Discussion of Aircraft in Commerce and Transportation available as a free PDF at:
https://ia802609.us.archive.org/30/i...00browrich.pdf
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Old 20th May 2019, 07:16
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PastTense. Thanks for that link. It's downloaded and saved, to be read at leisure.
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Old 20th May 2019, 07:23
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Originally Posted by racasanman View Post
Alcock was born in Manchester and Brown, although born in Scotland moved to Manchester at an early age so it is quite fitting that there is a statue commemorating their achievement at Manchester airport.
Its now at the transport interchange between the terminals. Unfortunately the airport dont really significantly highlight what the statue is or why its there. Maybe their intention is to dedicate the whole airport to the event from 100 years ago, as the terminals to this day represent how air travel was in its infancy. Uncomfortable and expensive, filled with Edwardian technology.
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Old 20th May 2019, 09:24
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Originally Posted by echobeach View Post
This is utterly brilliant. I was very disappointed not to be able to read the rest of that article in fly past.
You could try buying the magazine.
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Old 20th May 2019, 22:17
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Originally Posted by cooperplace View Post
Were mechanics also on the Alcock and Brown flight? Ross and Keith Smith's Vimy had Bennett and Shiers on board as well, and their extraordinary bravery is often overlooked.
Ive still got a book I read when I was a kid, and Ive just checked if I remember the story correctly. Brown apparently climbed out of the cockpit at night over the Atlantic to remove ice from the engine air intake. Not sure if that is true though....
But even if not, hats off to those adventurers, most of the stuff were doing nowadays seems trivial compared to this endeavour.
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Old 20th May 2019, 23:09
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Folks,
Thread drift I know, but in the G.O.Ds the Heathrow statue (which, in those days, was right by a heavily used security gate) was always refereed, irreverently, to as the "Sammy Davis Junior" statue.
Tootle pip!!
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Old 20th May 2019, 23:36
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Brown apparently climbed out of the cockpit at night over the Atlantic to remove ice from the engine air intake
While it's not known if the story is factual, the old timers certainly did pull off some amazing acts.

Sir Patrick Gordon Taylor, GC, OBE, MC, Australian aviator of some fame - During the 1935 Australia-New Zealand airmail flight with Charles Kingsford Smith, the starboard engine failed and the crew decided to return to Sydney, where the aircraft was buffeted by strong winds. It was decided that fuel and cargo must be jettisoned. During these conditions, Taylor made six journeys outside the cabin of the Southern Cross, climbing along the under-wing strut to drain the oil from the useless motor and transfer this to the overheating port motor. Taylor's actions, with the addition of Kingsford Smith's flying skills, resulted in the plane making its way back to land safely. Taylor was later awarded the Empire Gallantry Medal for his actions, which was later exchanged for the George Cross
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Old 21st May 2019, 02:48
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Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
Thread drift I know, but in the G.O.Ds the Heathrow statue (which, in those days, was right by a heavily used security gate) was always refereed, irreverently, to as the "Sammy Davis Junior" statue.
It sure was.
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Old 21st May 2019, 05:56
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
While it's not known if the story is factual, the old timers certainly did pull off some amazing acts.

Sir Patrick Gordon Taylor, GC, OBE, MC, Australian aviator of some fame - During the 1935 Australia-New Zealand airmail flight with Charles Kingsford Smith, the starboard engine failed and the crew decided to return to Sydney, where the aircraft was buffeted by strong winds. It was decided that fuel and cargo must be jettisoned. During these conditions, Taylor made six journeys outside the cabin of the Southern Cross, climbing along the under-wing strut to drain the oil from the useless motor and transfer this to the overheating port motor. Taylor's actions, with the addition of Kingsford Smith's flying skills, resulted in the plane making its way back to land safely. Taylor was later awarded the Empire Gallantry Medal for his actions, which was later exchanged for the George Cross
Bennett and Shiers, on the Smith's voyage, are said to have done some "outside cockpit" work as well. They were tough back in those days.

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Old 22nd May 2019, 17:39
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Smile

Originally Posted by megan View Post
While it's not known if the story is factual, the old timers certainly did pull off some amazing acts.
the under-wing strut to drain the oil from the useless motor and transfer this to the overheating port motor. Taylor's actions, with the addition of Kingsford Smith's flying skills, resulted in the plane making its way back to land safely. Taylor was later awarded the Empire Gallantry Medal for his actions, which was later exchanged for the George Cross
And here's me thinking myself frightfully brave for leaping into the warm Caribbean to jump up and down on the starboard wheel to get the Mallard's missing green to come alive. No GC for me; but Chalks did buy me a rum punch on Bimini.
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Old 22nd May 2019, 18:51
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On a lighter note: I read that the press always had some confusion as to who was who with the pair.

It was resolved by the Pilot calling from the front:
"Remember, it's Allcock in front!"

Which was followed by the Navigator adding:
"And a Brown behind!".
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Old 22nd May 2019, 19:07
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Originally Posted by Lou Scannon View Post
On a lighter note: I read that the press always had some confusion as to who was who with the pair.

It was resolved by the Pilot calling from the front:
"Remember, it's Allcock in front!"

Which was followed by the Navigator adding:
"And a Brown behind!".
Well actually they sat side by side. The rear cockpit had a tank/rescue boat in it.

On that other subject, as they said in BKK, You pilots are all the same - big watch, big cock and always pay by cheque... Never mind - Ive got the watch anyway.
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Old 25th May 2019, 18:33
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I know this the DM, but is it fair coment about lack of recognition of the event?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...T-HARDMAN.html
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