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B-52 and Vulcan formation

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B-52 and Vulcan formation

Old 18th Jan 2019, 16:00
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B-52 and Vulcan formation

Does anyone know anything more about this?
A prototype B-52H with a Vulcan B2 in anti-flash white. Is that Edwards below? Any idea when the photo was taken?
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 17:19
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definitely Edwards AFC


Edit:
A Boeing B-52 Stratofortress and an Avro Vulcan XH535 during the AGM-48 Skybolt trials, Edwards Air Force Base, 1961.

SLB
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Old 18th Jan 2019, 20:50
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I have to say it again, if only to ruffle a few feathers. A picture of a nice aeroplane; and something with a delta wing.
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Old 19th Jan 2019, 19:17
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I think Tony Blackman describes the background to this photo in his book 'Vulcan Test Pilot'. I don't have the book nearby to look it up though.
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Old 19th Jan 2019, 19:57
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Tony Blackman 'Vulcan Test Pilot' page 162; 'Author piloting Vulcan XH535 as it formates with B52 Stratofortress 20008 over Edwards Air force Base, 7th July 1961'.

Last edited by By George; 19th Jan 2019 at 19:58. Reason: spelling
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Old 19th Jan 2019, 21:35
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Originally Posted by Self loading bear View Post
A Boeing B-52 Stratofortress and an Avro Vulcan XH535 during the AGM-48 Skybolt trials, Edwards Air Force Base, 1961.
Originally Posted by By George View Post
Tony Blackman 'Vulcan Test Pilot' page 162; 'Author piloting Vulcan XH535 as it formates with B52 Stratofortress 20008 over Edwards Air force Base, 7th July 1961'.
Those look more like Bullpups under the wings IMHO.

It can't be "20008" as there weren't any FY62 B-52Hs and 52-008 was a much earlier RB-52B/NB-52B used as a carrier aircraft for the X-15 programme.
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Old 19th Jan 2019, 22:07
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Serial on fin looks like it might be 60-0008 in pic on this site, but very pixelated so hard to be certain. Pic on the other site says it's 61-023 which famously lost its fin! Pretty certain it isn't.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 01:53
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
Serial on fin looks like it might be 60-0008 in pic on this site, but very pixelated so hard to be certain. Pic on the other site says it's 61-023 which famously lost its fin! Pretty certain it isn't.
This is the same image as the "B-52 + vulcan" one at the top of the thread - just with the vulcan cropped out. I think it's slightly clearer. See "roads" near and intersecting fin and black spot behind and a bit above tip of fin.

Sorry if that's what you meant.

Images below found with a reverse image search - I have no knowledge of the subject.



Here is a very clear B&W image of a very similar aircraft.
https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/60-0006/




PPRuNe breaks certain links so use the short URL below. For fun we can make it display a childish message.
'I have a low IQ and haven't figured this out yet'
http://thetartanterror.********.com/...-blackman.html

https://tinyurl.com/y9zy3xr7




https://i.pinimg.com/474x/5b/ac/57/5...3c66f49a88.jpg

Last edited by jimjim1; 20th Jan 2019 at 02:49.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 03:08
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Boeing B-52H-135-BW 60-0008 (MSN 464373) Named “Flamingo Flier” with 2nd Bomb Wing in March 1967. Named "Lucky Lady IV" with 2nd BW in 2008. 20th BS Active mar12 dec18 '8 AF' dec18-mar12

jim has nailed the aircraft I think, but the above gives no history prior to '67. Good eyes there too Treaders.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 04:00
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Google books has some preview pages of Tony Blackman's book available.

I am having trouble with the links. You may need to "search inside" for 20008.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Qp4jMl2tDo8C&lpg=PP1&pg=PA123-IA2#v=onepage&dq=20008&f=true
Page counter says "Page 123"
Scroll down and click on blue "Page 123>>" link.

Unfortunately the captions seem inconsistent with the B-52 images. Both "Top" and "Bottom" captions refer to 20008. The aircraft have different nose and fin art and the "bottom" one on the ground had a weapons pylon that appears to be absent from the image with the Vulcan in formation.















Last edited by jimjim1; 20th Jan 2019 at 05:13. Reason: Link trouble.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 04:51
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These images are I think slightly better.




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Old 20th Jan 2019, 05:02
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Regardless of which B-52 is in the picture, it is interesting that the picture includes the retirement location of 008 - the Edwards North Gate:



I went to see it three years ago. The gate is about a mile off Highway 58 and 008 is just outside the gate:









More information about the history of 008. The oldest but lowest time B-52 when it was retired:

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/armstro...-005-DFRC.html

If you go to the West Gate, you can see Century Circle, with all of the Century Series fighters. It's a 12 mile drive, but you pass Chino Mojave Airport on the way, so it took me a long time to get there!

Last edited by India Four Two; 20th Jan 2019 at 15:02.
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 09:44
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Good call jimjim!

The B-52 Tony is standing in front of is definitely "Balls 8" 52-0008, as mentioned by DaveReidUK and I42, used to drop the X-15 et al. It has the taller fin of the earlier B-52 variants.

but you pass Chino Airport on the way
Mojave?
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 14:05
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Thanks Treaders. Obviously a senior moment. I will correct my post!

Chino came later in my trip.
Road trip part 2 - Santa Monica to Calgary
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 18:13
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I did both on the same trip; unfortunately I didn't know about the various aircraft on display at Edwards - though 20 years ago perhaps they weren't. Did see the B-29 "Doc" at Inyokern, it had recently been towed out of China Lake. Also stumbled on the Blackbird Air Park! First I'd heard of Tagboard!
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Old 20th Jan 2019, 18:46
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We were obviously travelling the same roads - I went to the Blackbird Airpark as well. It was closed although I got a good view through the fence. An SR-71, an A-12 and a D-21 (Tagboard) all on display.

Road trip - Calgary to Santa Monica
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 00:38
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Unfortunately the captions seem inconsistent with the B-52 images
Tony Blackman has misidentified the aircraft by stating,
Author piloting Vulcan XH535 as it formates with B52 Stratofortress 20008 over Edwards Air force Base, 7th July 1961
The aircraft in formation with the Vulcan is a "H" model, identified by the short fin and and the introduction of the new TF33 engines.

"Balls 8" is a RB-52B-10-BO, serial 52-008 (MSN 16498) converted to NB-52B carrier aircraft for X-15 and Lifting Body research programs. To NASA as 008. Scheduled to be retired from active service with NASA Dec 17, 2004. To be retired to permanent display at west gate of Edwards AFB. In Dec 2012 was still seen at North Edwards, which means that it may not be going to the West gate. As can be seen in the photos above it still carries the tall fin which is proof positive it's not the aircraft in formation, nor has it the TF33 engines.

jim has identified the aircraft in his B & W photo, IMHO.

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Old 21st Jan 2019, 09:55
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I've just had a look in the book itself, XH535 was flown to Edwards for ground radio tests for the Skybolt system. Tony Blackman and Dickie Martin flew the Vulcan out there via Goose Bay, cruise climbing from 47,000 feet up after departing Goose. When positioning the aircraft on the lakebed for the trials, the local pilot, who was along to provide directions, got them into a cul-de-sac and to get out of it they went across some stones, ruining a complete set of tires in the process. It did not delay the trials, but a set of tires had to be flown out and it took a few weeks before the aircraft was ready to head home. Tony Blackman then took Fitz Fulton up, letting him fly the Vulcan. During that flight, they managed to take the formation photos shown above. In return, Fitz Fulton let Tony fly with him in B-52 20008, and he organised a flight in a B-47 for him with Jack Allevie. Both flights are illustrated by the photos showing Tony in front of the respective Boeing types (see post #10).

I agree that the caption for the first image that triggered this thread is wrong. Just comparing the two images on the page, it is clear that they are not of the same B-52.

Returning to the UK, they arrived around dawn but were unable to get into Woodford due to the weather and lack of an ILS, and diverted to Manchester.

XH535 was the Skybolt radio programme development aircraft. It later crashed near Amesbury.
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 10:03
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Tony has occasionally posted on here, if he sees this perhaps he can enlarge on his account of the trials.

Great thread!
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Old 21st Jan 2019, 10:06
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I have sat in that one (I recognised the list of experimental drops stencilled on the side) visiting a NASA Dryden pilot I knew from his Boscombe Down exchange tour. He said that it was effectively flown as a 2 crew (Pilot plus flight engineer) but to keep everyone happy any NASA pilot who was breathing was dragged out of the crewroom to sit in the right-hand seat and arm and push the 'drop' button on cue. Occasionally this resulted in slightly premature drops.....
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