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Spitfire found in Norway flown by participant in "Great Escape"

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Spitfire found in Norway flown by participant in "Great Escape"

Old 23rd Nov 2018, 04:35
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Spitfire found in Norway flown by participant in "Great Escape"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8646841.html
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 22:30
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Spitfire found in Norwegian peat bog

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...lands-46316377

The remains of a Spitfire shot down while on a mission to photograph the WW2 German battleship Tirpitz have been recovered from a Norwegian peat bog.

Auchterarder-born pilot, Flt Lt Alastair "Sandy" Gunn, had flown the aircraft out of RAF Wick in Caithness on 5 March 1942.

Gunn was captured, interrogated, imprisoned and later executed after the Stalag Luft III "Great Escape".

His plane, Spitfire AA810, is to be restored and flown again.
Hmmm - restored?


Can't find this on PPRuNe.
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Old 23rd Nov 2018, 23:40
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Sad as it may seem they will have the data plate and that is more or less all that is required for a ground up restoration, even that may be replaced, but that's basically all the CAA req for a "rebuild" that's why when I see Spitfires, Hurricanes etc described at airshows as a genuine WW2 aircraft, I have a little chortle. One I know that was rebuilt off a gate and relatively intact ended up containing a leading edge skin and the plate, the rest was new. There are a few about that are more or less complete, but they are a rarity.
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 11:01
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Why doesn't someone just set up a production line for Spitfires, and then every time one is dug out of the ground, its data plate can be screwed in to make one of them genuine? (supposing that any variant can be configured from a basic airframe).

The whole business is a con. I'm more than happy to see fake Spitfires in the sky, but I do mind the public being expected to believe they are original WW2 aircraft.
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 12:02
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Originally Posted by c52 View Post
Why doesn't someone just set up a production line for Spitfires, and then every time one is dug out of the ground, its data plate can be screwed in to make one of them genuine? (supposing that any variant can be configured from a basic airframe).
Was effectively setup 30 years ago, and pretty much how the majority of the last 25 or so that have been returned to the air in the UK.

The same has been done for the Hurricane, the P-51, and more recently the Mosquito in Aus/NZ with a 3rd Mossie shortly about to take to the air from Avespecs Mossie 'production line'.
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 12:55
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Did they check to see if there were eleven more down there, in crates?
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 13:02
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
Did they check to see if there were eleven more down there, in crates?
Damn ... you just beat me to that!!
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 13:20
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Serious question: I have connections with a charity that's pretty sure it has a Spitfire fuselage buried (somewhere) on its land. No engine or wings, just the fuselage and cockpit. It's not a crash site, and no reason to anticipate ownership would be disputed. Identity/provenance of the airframe is unknown; we know how it got there, but nothing about its previous history.

Anyone have any idea what it might be worth (if anything) if it could be located?
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 14:16
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Value is subjective. If there’s any provenance connected to what’s left of the airframe then you may get something for it. Original Spitfire parts are few and far between, so even something with no provenance may end up used in other restos or as templates at some stage. How did it get there?
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 14:42
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Originally Posted by jimjim1 View Post
Hmmm - restored?
No. Re-stored. It's going back to the bog!
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 15:38
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Why doesn't someone just set up a production line for Spitfires, and then every time one is dug out of the ground, its data plate can be screwed in to make one of them genuine? (supposing that any variant can be configured from a basic airframe).
Someone actually was in the process of doing that before his untimley death, Charles Church the housebuilder, indeed one was produced which followed on the serial num,bers from the last production ones.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...tfire-crashes/
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 15:53
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Pasta depends on condition, there were some Lancs found yeas ago but though they showed on a scan they had literally disolved, that said stuff is still coming out of lakes and the ground, these are examples of late

Messerschmitt Bf 109 - June 2018 Water Recovery in Russia!

Ilyushin Il-2 Shturmovik Recovery ? Updated Story | Warbirds News

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/thread...ign=11-22-2018
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 16:46
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If it is 'restored', surely that's better than leaving it in situ ,or on display in its current state? The Kittyhawk found in the desert has apparently been ruined by the Eygptians. The RAF museums Hallibag is slowly dissolving away. I am sure most of us would rather see it flying,even it is not in its orginal state.
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Old 24th Nov 2018, 17:35
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...tion-j0h6w67wg
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 00:36
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The whole business is a con. I'm more than happy to see fake Spitfires in the sky, but I do mind the public being expected to believe they are original WW2 aircraft
The convention used to describe the aircrafts providence is one of,

Original
Restoration
Reconstruction
Conversion
Rehabilitation
Reproduction
Replica

As an example, the B-17 "Shoo Shoo Baby" is defined as "a composite rehabilitation to factory condition" and the “Spirit of St. Louis,” "a preserved,definitive original, reference date 1928".

Details here.

https://tighar.org/Projects/Histpres/guide.html
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 00:53
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I have vague recollection about something saying somewhere that for an aircraft to be called “original “ at least 3% (!?) Of it has to come from original parts.
Whatever the actual percentage, it was really low.


Don’t quote me on it though....
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 02:01
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for an aircraft to be called “original “ at least 3% (!?) Of it has to come from original parts
Said by a used car salesman no doubt. To have only 3% original parts the classification would be something akin to "Shoo Shoo Baby", certainly not "Original".
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 15:54
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Originally Posted by Stitchbitch View Post
Value is subjective. If there’s any provenance connected to what’s left of the airframe then you may get something for it. Original Spitfire parts are few and far between, so even something with no provenance may end up used in other restos or as templates at some stage. How did it get there?
Was acquired post war (not sure whether bought or donated), and then, in the '50s, they decided they didn't have a use for it, had no value, so they buried it!
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 16:32
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Where is the charity's land? Is it in Burma? If so, I'm sure that if you paid them handsomely enough, TIGHAR would dig it up for the charity and give it a TIGHAR 100% original guarantee certificate. They might even throw in some bones and freckle cream!
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Old 25th Nov 2018, 16:49
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Originally Posted by fauteuil volant View Post
Where is the charity's land? Is it in Burma? If so, I'm sure that if you paid them handsomely enough, TIGHAR would dig it up for the charity and give it a TIGHAR 100% original guarantee certificate. They might even throw in some bones and freckle cream!
Would need to be somewhere warm. Plus this sounds too definitive a story for them: they like their expeditions to be a bit less specific. That way, it's easy to relocate the vacation somewhere else warm. I'm not sure TIGHAR ever did much about Maid of Harlech for most of those reasons. Probably.
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