Harry Goodman -Air Europe/ILG
WHBM
AE's first and perhaps not well known orders (perhaps even just MofU's) for wide bodies goes way back to the very early 80's when they had a deal with BA for leasing back and buying aircraft - hence the ref to an order for a RR 747-200B (a -236?)
re the MDD order for a DC-10 30 again in 1980 or thereabouts the DC-10 was still in production
the AE MD11 orders came much later in 1989 for a 93 delivery with RR power
AE's first and perhaps not well known orders (perhaps even just MofU's) for wide bodies goes way back to the very early 80's when they had a deal with BA for leasing back and buying aircraft - hence the ref to an order for a RR 747-200B (a -236?)
re the MDD order for a DC-10 30 again in 1980 or thereabouts the DC-10 was still in production
the AE MD11 orders came much later in 1989 for a 93 delivery with RR power
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WHBM
AE's first and perhaps not well known orders (perhaps even just MofU's) for wide bodies goes way back to the very early 80's when they had a deal with BA for leasing back and buying aircraft - hence the ref to an order for a RR 747-200B (a -236?)
re the MDD order for a DC-10 30 again in 1980 or thereabouts the DC-10 was still in production
the AE MD11 orders came much later in 1989 for a 93 delivery with RR power
AE's first and perhaps not well known orders (perhaps even just MofU's) for wide bodies goes way back to the very early 80's when they had a deal with BA for leasing back and buying aircraft - hence the ref to an order for a RR 747-200B (a -236?)
re the MDD order for a DC-10 30 again in 1980 or thereabouts the DC-10 was still in production
the AE MD11 orders came much later in 1989 for a 93 delivery with RR power
canberra97
LOL - yes i just read that too -
ta, I handled AE for a few years at LGW until their sad demise and heard all sorts of stories and we saw loads of subbing and leasing both in and out with all parts of the IAG group then - I think the BA747 RR order may have been def credible - not sure about the DC10 order although I knew the MDD rep at LHR and LGW quite well when i was with BMA and he knew about it
the licences were not forthcoming so that was that
back in the early 80's I chartered several series of AE for our tour op division - very nice accommodating bunch - brand new planes and superb on board service - pax loved it
LOL - yes i just read that too -
ta, I handled AE for a few years at LGW until their sad demise and heard all sorts of stories and we saw loads of subbing and leasing both in and out with all parts of the IAG group then - I think the BA747 RR order may have been def credible - not sure about the DC10 order although I knew the MDD rep at LHR and LGW quite well when i was with BMA and he knew about it
the licences were not forthcoming so that was that
back in the early 80's I chartered several series of AE for our tour op division - very nice accommodating bunch - brand new planes and superb on board service - pax loved it
I'm still surprised about any ex BA 747/RRs being leased out in the early 1980s. BA had a considerable need for these aircraft for longer haul routes where their original 747s did not have the capability (California/JNB/Far East nonstops), but they were severely restricted by government ownership on capital expenditure to about two new frames a year, when they wanted more.
The BA/AE 757 arrangement that came along in 1983-5 allowed AE to charter out their new 757 capacity in winter, while BA aircraft went the other way in summer. The upside for BA was the much more efficient 757 during the winter; in the summer and shoulders when the 757s went away they reinstated their much less fuel efficient Tridents, the last of which were withdrawn at the end of 1985 which coincided with the end of the arrangement. There must have been some sort of "by the hour" charging as the AE 757s seemed to dominate on BA's shortest 757 sector, the Shuttle from Heathrow to Manchester.
The BA/AE 757 arrangement that came along in 1983-5 allowed AE to charter out their new 757 capacity in winter, while BA aircraft went the other way in summer. The upside for BA was the much more efficient 757 during the winter; in the summer and shoulders when the 757s went away they reinstated their much less fuel efficient Tridents, the last of which were withdrawn at the end of 1985 which coincided with the end of the arrangement. There must have been some sort of "by the hour" charging as the AE 757s seemed to dominate on BA's shortest 757 sector, the Shuttle from Heathrow to Manchester.
I'm still surprised about any ex BA 747/RRs being leased out in the early 1980s. BA had a considerable need for these aircraft for longer haul routes where their original 747s did not have the capability (California/JNB/Far East nonstops), but they were severely restricted by government ownership on capital expenditure to about two new frames a year, when they wanted more.
The BA/AE 757 arrangement that came along in 1983-5 allowed AE to charter out their new 757 capacity in winter, while BA aircraft went the other way in summer. The upside for BA was the much more efficient 757 during the winter; in the summer and shoulders when the 757s went away they reinstated their much less fuel efficient Tridents, the last of which were withdrawn at the end of 1985 which coincided with the end of the arrangement. There must have been some sort of "by the hour" charging as the AE 757s seemed to dominate on BA's shortest 757 sector, the Shuttle from Heathrow to Manchester.
The BA/AE 757 arrangement that came along in 1983-5 allowed AE to charter out their new 757 capacity in winter, while BA aircraft went the other way in summer. The upside for BA was the much more efficient 757 during the winter; in the summer and shoulders when the 757s went away they reinstated their much less fuel efficient Tridents, the last of which were withdrawn at the end of 1985 which coincided with the end of the arrangement. There must have been some sort of "by the hour" charging as the AE 757s seemed to dominate on BA's shortest 757 sector, the Shuttle from Heathrow to Manchester.
Regarding rumours, I was with AE from start to finish. Peter Phillips, the engineering director, visited Rome to inspect a couple of Alitalia 747/200's when I was on the 737/200 in 1981 or 82, but that came to nothing.
I can't remember DC10's ever being talked about, unless they were a result of the BCAL take-over that never happened. ISTR remember some of us thought the MD11 was a bit of a gamble and going for B767-300's would have been a better bet.
I can't remember DC10's ever being talked about, unless they were a result of the BCAL take-over that never happened. ISTR remember some of us thought the MD11 was a bit of a gamble and going for B767-300's would have been a better bet.
