Daily Mail Trans- Atlantic Air Race 1969
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Sotonsean, the race took place between 4th and 11th May and I believe three Harriers were involved, one flown London - New York by Lecky-Thompson and two were positioned to New York earlier, one for the return leg and a second as a spare. John Farley flew over and the ultimately successful opportunity was taken to flog the Harrier to the USMC; so two Harriers in New York around the time and not impossible for them to have provided an escort for the QEII!
Guy Ellis also has a lot of information about the race online here: https://sites.google.com/view/dmtaar/home
The Wikipedia page is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_...antic_Air_Race
After the record attempt, I understand the two Harriers operated out of Floyd Bennet Naval Air Station in Brooklyn.
Of course, this all happened before the US bought Harriers having seen how ours were able to land in Manhattan; now look what's happened to us; we've 'given' all our remaining Harriers to the USMC and have no equivalent replacement, the F35b's being totally different animals..
Last edited by chevvron; 25th Apr 2023 at 10:25.
Sotonsean, the race took place between 4th and 11th May and I believe three Harriers were involved, one flown London - New York by Lecky-Thompson and two were positioned to New York earlier, one for the return leg and a second as a spare. John Farley flew over and the ultimately successful opportunity was taken to flog the Harrier to the USMC; so two Harriers in New York around the time and not impossible for them to have provided an escort for the QEII!
If indeed there were Harriers nearby when she arrived in New York Harbour on her maiden transatlantic crossing on the 07 May 1969 they were not seen in any photos that I have witnessed.
If indeed they were they must have been a fair distance from the vessel itself. I'm not doubting this fact but it's something that I've been totally unaware of until this topic was brought up.
And there's me thinking that I'm an absolute historian when it comes to anything related to or concerning to my MUCH beloved RMS Queen Elizabeth 2.
There are limited photos of her maiden departure from New York so that's when they probably appeared. But obviously the painting gives a completely different perspective as the Queen Elizabeth 2 just like any other vessel departing New York, they wouldn't be sailing past the Statue of Liberty at that angle.
I can't remember my late Grandfather mentioning any Harrier Escort and from my 16 years working on-board the Queen Elizabeth 2 I hadn't come across any story to back that up. Plus with all the nostalgia on-board the vessel including many magnificent paintings I've never come across the one posted in this thread.
FYI It's the Queen Elizabeth 2 or just QE2 for short. No roman numerals in her name, it's very much looked down upon in maritime circles especially within Cunard Line when the inappropriate term of QEII is used. The same applies to our current flagship, the magnificent Queen Mary 2.
Both vessels are named after their predecessors. The RMS Queen Elizabeth 2 was named after the original RMS Queen Elizabeth from 1939. The RMS Queen Elizabeth 2 was named after the original ship even though our late HRH Queen Elizabeth II named her at her launching ceremony at the former John Brown shipyard on the River Clyde in 1967.
The Queen Mary 2 is currently in the Port of Southampton with an engine fault which meant that her transatlantic crossing to New York on Sunday 23 April 2023 was cancelled which has caused disruption to 1000s of guests including 18 dogs. This transatlantic crossing would have also been part of the final leg of her 2023 World cruise.
I'm actually typing this reply within touching distance of the Queen Mary 2 which incidentally I had breakfast aboard this morning.
Tom Lecky-Thompson told me that towards the end of his RAF service he enquired of the CAA about getting a PPL. They asked for evidence of a qualifying solo cross country, so he said London to New York; they said it had to be a triangular cross country and as his London - New York didn't have an intermediate landing, it didn't count.
Last edited by Hew Jampton; 25th Apr 2023 at 17:03.
I remember the race as I flew an RAF Britannia to the Floyd Bennett Naval Base in New York with spare parts and ground crew on board for the Harrier and Phantom contingent. We had a good night in New York then returned to Lyneham.
Sotonsean, the race took place between 4th and 11th May and I believe three Harriers were involved, one flown London - New York by Lecky-Thompson and two were positioned to New York earlier, one for the return leg and a second as a spare. John Farley flew over and the ultimately successful opportunity was taken to flog the Harrier to the USMC; so two Harriers in New York around the time and not impossible for them to have provided an escort for the QEII!
It was the evening after Lecky-Thompson arrived in New York after his record setting east-west flight that, he and Williams were having a drink in a New York bar watching the TV which showed that QE2 was due to arrive a day or so later on her maiden voyage, that the two pilots hatched the plan to escort QE2 into NYC, partly so as to not have QE2's arrival upstaging their own success, and without any official permission from RAF but being given permission from both FAA and the NYCPA, and banking on asking for any forgiveness from RAF after the event!!
Lecky-Thompson and Williams took off from NAS Floyd-Bennet Field and escorted QE2 in the hover, and both pilots were invited to the QE2's welcome cocktail party but had to decline as Williams had to prepare for his departure the following day for his west-east run in '744.
Sotonsean, while you may not have heard about it or seen photo's, this hover escort sortie is well known about, even among QE2 people, and also made the British National Newspapers after the event. As such both pilots had no come back from the RAF, a VSO subsequently claiming that it was his idea by all accounts...!!
John Farley flew over via BOAC, and he and Lecky-Thompson shared the demo flying of '741 to the USMC in the following days, although Williams had done some preliminary work for that with '744 prior to the arrival of Lecky-Thompson in '741, and the rest as they say is history.
There were only two Harriers in New York at the time, XV741 flown over by Sdr. Ldr Tom Lecky-Thompson on what would be the winning east-west crossing, and XV744, which had been flown over in advance a few weeks earlier by Lecky-Thompson, for the attempt on the west-east crossing. Lecky-Thompson flew back to UK via BOAC, and Sdr.Ldr Graham Williams, who was going to fly the west-east flight, flew to New York by BOAC. Lecky-Thompson and Williams were at the time 2 of only 3 RAF pilots cleared to fly the Harrier at the time.
It was the evening after Lecky-Thompson arrived in New York after his record setting east-west flight that, he and Williams were having a drink in a New York bar watching the TV which showed that QE2 was due to arrive a day or so later on her maiden voyage, that the two pilots hatched the plan to escort QE2 into NYC, partly so as to not have QE2's arrival upstaging their own success, and without any official permission from RAF but being given permission from both FAA and the NYCPA, and banking on asking for any forgiveness from RAF after the event!!
Lecky-Thompson and Williams took off from NAS Floyd-Bennet Field and escorted QE2 in the hover, and both pilots were invited to the QE2's welcome cocktail party but had to decline as Williams had to prepare for his departure the following day for his west-east run in '744.
Sotonsean, while you may not have heard about it or seen photo's, this hover escort sortie is well known about, even among QE2 people, and also made the British National Newspapers after the event. As such both pilots had no come back from the RAF, a VSO subsequently claiming that it was his idea by all accounts...!!
.
It was the evening after Lecky-Thompson arrived in New York after his record setting east-west flight that, he and Williams were having a drink in a New York bar watching the TV which showed that QE2 was due to arrive a day or so later on her maiden voyage, that the two pilots hatched the plan to escort QE2 into NYC, partly so as to not have QE2's arrival upstaging their own success, and without any official permission from RAF but being given permission from both FAA and the NYCPA, and banking on asking for any forgiveness from RAF after the event!!
Lecky-Thompson and Williams took off from NAS Floyd-Bennet Field and escorted QE2 in the hover, and both pilots were invited to the QE2's welcome cocktail party but had to decline as Williams had to prepare for his departure the following day for his west-east run in '744.
Sotonsean, while you may not have heard about it or seen photo's, this hover escort sortie is well known about, even among QE2 people, and also made the British National Newspapers after the event. As such both pilots had no come back from the RAF, a VSO subsequently claiming that it was his idea by all accounts...!!
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He was only there for about 18 months then he went to Boscombe Down as commandant/Air Cdre.
Last edited by chevvron; 28th Apr 2023 at 15:10.
Hmm; there was a Graham Williams who was posted in to Farnborough in about 1982 I think to assume the post of CO Experimental Flying as Gp Capt; I wonder if this was the same person?
He was only there for about 18 months then he went to Boscombe Down as commandant/Air Cdre.
He was only there for about 18 months then he went to Boscombe Down as commandant/Air Cdre.
He retired as an AVM.
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GeeRam, I've dug out my copy of John Farley's "A View From the Hover" and he definitely mentions the two Harriers flown each way in the race by Tom Lecky-Thompson and Graham Williams, plus a third as a spare flown out by Andy Jones, who I recall as being a HSA test pilot and who later flew demos in the Hawk? Two Harriers, plus JF and Lecky-Thompson and a sales team including Bill Bedford to do the pitch to the USMC.
GeeRam, I've dug out my copy of John Farley's "A View From the Hover" and he definitely mentions the two Harriers flown each way in the race by Tom Lecky-Thompson and Graham Williams, plus a third as a spare flown out by Andy Jones, who I recall as being a HSA test pilot and who later flew demos in the Hawk? Two Harriers, plus JF and Lecky-Thompson and a sales team including Bill Bedford to do the pitch to the USMC.
I know Bill Bedford was there, as he was involved in distracting the FAA rep at take-off site for Williams west-east attempt in '744, as weather wasn't good in the morning when due to take-off, and they were worried about the FAA rep stopping it, so Bill kept him 'occupied' allowing Williams to take off from the dockside before he could do anything to stop it...
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GeeRam, he just says it was ferried out earlier to act as a spare. I don't know if Andy Jones was HSA at the time or perhaps still with the RAF and 1 Sqn (I was only 5 in '69 and blissfully unaware of The Great Race!).
Andy Jones definitely was a Dunsfold TP but whether he was in '69 I don't know. He was certainly at Dunsfold about 5 years later but he was mainly a Hawk man; went out to somewhere in North Africa with a Hawk to demonstrate and flew back to Dunsfold in 2.5 hours non stop and sounded VERY chuffed on the RTF when he got here 'cos he set some sort of speed record.
Got a feeling he might have been banned from flying at Farnborough when he got a bit low during a display one year.
Got a feeling he might have been banned from flying at Farnborough when he got a bit low during a display one year.
treadigraph:
This race was sometime before the first Harriers arrived with 1 Sqn, which was around the beginning of August 1969. Andy Jones was definitely not on 1 Sqn during that year. The first RAF Harrier pilots who were not TPs were the Harrier Conversion Team - Dick LeBrocq, Pete Dodworth, Richie Profit, and Bruce Latton, who did their conversions at Dunsfold. Later they were joined by Hoof Proudfoot. They were the guys who did the conversions of 1 Sqn and 4 Sqn (UK echelon), which had previously been 54 Sqn.
This race was sometime before the first Harriers arrived with 1 Sqn, which was around the beginning of August 1969. Andy Jones was definitely not on 1 Sqn during that year. The first RAF Harrier pilots who were not TPs were the Harrier Conversion Team - Dick LeBrocq, Pete Dodworth, Richie Profit, and Bruce Latton, who did their conversions at Dunsfold. Later they were joined by Hoof Proudfoot. They were the guys who did the conversions of 1 Sqn and 4 Sqn (UK echelon), which had previously been 54 Sqn.
Last edited by kenparry; 29th Apr 2023 at 13:25. Reason: omission corrected
Hmm; there was a Graham Williams who was posted in to Farnborough in about 1982 I think to assume the post of CO Experimental Flying as Gp Capt; I wonder if this was the same person?
He was only there for about 18 months then he went to Boscombe Down as commandant/Air Cdre.
He was only there for about 18 months then he went to Boscombe Down as commandant/Air Cdre.
Commandant A&AEE was his final flying tour, before flying a desk at MOD for last 5 years of service.
I invited him to my ATC Squadron's annual dinner as guest of honour and would you believe he never even mentioned the race. Mind you I was sat next to his wife and she seemed to spend the whole evening chatting to me. I think they had a daughter who, like me, was a 'VRT officer.
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kenparry , looks like Andy Jones joined HSA from Boscombe in the early '70s along with Jim Hawkins specifically as project pilots for the Hawk. Presume he could have been involved on the Harrier project during acceptance test flying or whatever process was involved in getting the aircraft into service.
I knew Graham well as we were both living in the same block of flats in Maalla, Aden when he was on 8 Sqn Hunters and I was on 105, Argosies. I went to several 8 Sqn does with him and we both finished up in trouble with our better halves! The next time we met was several years later just before he left for New York when we were taking spares and ground crew to Floyd Bennet Naval Air Station. He was a very nice guy.
