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interesting old photo

Old 10th Dec 2016, 22:10
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interesting old photo

came across some very interesting old photo's like this one on the national library of Australia site , quite few from WW1 on there too

this one is from 1935
Fleet of aircraft and aerial photograph of Glebe, Sydney, ca. 1935, 1 [picture].
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 00:19
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Very interesting. Thanks, A68.
The obvious aircraft in that photo of the 'fleet' are of course two DH60 Moths, a DH84 Dragon and a Comper Swift.
That pair of similar looking high-wing monoplanes has me scratching my head, though.
Could someone enlighten me?
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 01:52
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Praga E114 Baby monoplanes?
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 05:17
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Yep, Praga Air Babies.
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 05:22
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I can just bearly read one of the rego's vh-uxr which is a hillson praga as in the ed coates website
VH-UXR
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 07:26
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Ah, thankee, gents.
I'm thinking that, in those days where most mechanical contrivances were sourced from within the Empire, they would likely be Hillson Pragas, no?


Edit: A68's post crossed with this one ... so there we go, eh?
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 12:27
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The number of interesting old aviation photos and information coming online as more and more papers and periodicals and journals are digitised, is great.

Personally, I find it hard to believe Australia had a fledging aircraft industry in the late 1920's - and the Great Depression, Govt apathy, and a lack of financial support saw it fold.
What that industry could have been, and could have produced, if it had been nurtured, can only be conjecture today.

The LASCO Lascoter - Australia's first locally-designed-and-built aircraft
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 14:40
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Just got back from the "100 coffee" run to Turweston in my Australian designed, New Zealand built, UK assembled Victa (Glos)-Airtourer. Still a delight to fly after 30 years of ownership and perhaps that's how the 3 countries might have co-operated on designing and building aircraft..
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Old 11th Dec 2016, 22:27
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I seem to remember being told that the designer of the Percival Provost designed the Airtourer. Of course if he was an Australian then fair dinkum, Mate!
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 01:11
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Henry Millicer. In 1943 he obtained a scholarship to study for a master's degree in aeronautical engineering at Imperial College, London, joining Airspeed in 1945 and later Percival aircraft. The Percival Provost design is attributed to Millicer. In 1950 he migrated to Australia and became chief aerodynamicist at the Government Aircraft Factories (GAF), working on the Jindivik and the Malkara missile. With two colleagues he entered a design competition sponsored by the Royal Aero Club of London for a replacement aircraft for the de Havilland Chipmunk. The Millicer team beat 103 contestants and won the competition with a design that ultimately became the Victa Airtourer. After several years of production Victa Aviation sold the rights to a New Zealand company. Millicer also had developed a slightly larger 4 place aircraft known as the AirCruiser, with one prototype built at the Bankstown NSW Victa factory and first flown in 1966. A military trainer version of this was under development at the time of the closure of the Victa operation which was subsequently converted in NZ into the PAC CT/4 military trainer. His other inventions include a patent for the vortex flap and a suction grass mower (honored in the Sydney 2000 Olympics opening). He also published Aerodynamics for Soaring Pilots for the Gliding Club of Victoria.
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 01:31
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The Percival Provost design was attributed to Henry Millicer when he worked for them prior to 1950 when he migrated to Australia.
He was a Pole who had flown against the Germans in 1939 and was awarded the Polish Air Force Cross. The defeat of Poland saw him make his way to England where he flew bombers in the RAF.

His Airtourer design came about as the result of an international competition sponsored by the Royal Aero Club to find a suitable replacement for the DHC-1 Chipmunk.
A tough call.
In any case, he won the competition (which had attracted more than 100 entries) hands down and so the Victa Airtourer was born.
A descendant of that aircraft is the New Zealand developed and built PAC CT4 Airtrainer.

I was privileged to attend a lecture given by him in Melbourne some years ago. He impressed all of us as a man of profound intelligence, experience, insight and wisdom.
Sadly, he passed away in 1996 at the age of 81.
Vale Henryk.
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 02:03
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Ironic that a Polish engineer should win a competition to replace an aircraft designed by another Polish engineer.

I've got a few hours in a Kiwi Airtourer. A nice little aircraft, but hampered by a small payload limit (at least when you weigh as much as I do).

I've also flown a civil CT-4B - now that is really nice. VictorGolf, imagine your Airtourer with a 210 HP engine! By the way does the UK Airtourer have the flexible fuel dipstick?
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 05:11
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By the way does the UK Airtourer have the flexible fuel dipstick?
To quote Henry, the dipstick is the only thing that goes in floppy and comes out stiff.

CC
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 06:16
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did anyone see the De Havilland "Giant Moth" pictures
here is a crashed one , wonder what the story was
Man standing next to damaged de Havilland DH61 Giant Moth biplane airliner G-AUHW 'Canberra' after crash landing, Cowes, Victoria, ca. 1928 [picture].

and this link should show up most of the giant moths pictures
Search Results | National Library of Australia

would love too see someone build a replica of one ,
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 06:59
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I'd forgotten that Hillsons built the Air Baby too. I recall a Swiss Air Baby arriving at the PFA Rally at Cranfield many years ago, had no idea what it was and haven't seen one since so far as I recall.
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 11:07
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Yes indeed the CT/4 would be very nice but PAC have built a couple with glass screens and a 300 hp engine for the Singaporeans. That should work! Indeed mine has the floppy dipstick and it always seems to give refuellers the giggles. Anyway it's much more accurate than the gauge, which is even worse than those on Pipers/Cessnas and so on. Apparently the Royal Aero Club never paid up on the competition prize which rather upset Henry Millicer. I'm always hopeful that I can park next to a Provost at a Fly-in as the Airtourer looks like a 3/4 scale version apart from the tricycle undercarriage. Apparently the RAF wanted the Airtourer to replace the Chipmunk but AESL wouldn't replace the central column with joysticks and so the Bulldog was bought instead. Latterly they did replace it and sold a bunch back to the Australians which was slightly ironic.
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 12:38
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A681001 - The DH61 Giant Moth was delivered as G-AUHW, and registered to Airgold Ltd of Sydney on November 19, 1928.
However, it was damaged in the landing accident you have found the photo of - on 9 Dec 1928 - and the aircraft was subsequently never accepted by Airgold.
I can find no news reports of the 9th Dec 1928 landing crash of the Giant Moth.

The aircraft was re-registered to De Havilland under Australian registration as VH-UHW, after the landing crash, and the Giant Moth was subsequently purchased in early 1929, by the famous WW1 fighter ace, Capt Les Holden.

Les Holden was a member of the extended Holden family, who owned the Holdens Motor Body Builders business - which company originally built bodies for motor vehicles - and which company was then purchased by General Motors in 1931, to form the famous General-Motors-Holden Co - producer of the GM range of vehicles in Australia from 1931, and manufacturer of the Holden car from November 1948. GMH also built many types of vehicle bodies for other vehicle manufacturers.

Wikipedia - Les Holden

Les Holden formed Holdens Air Transport Services to carry out air transport services - and Les Holden and the DH61 Giant Moth gained great renown, when Holden, flying the DH61, found Charles Kingsford Smith and his lost aircraft, the Southern Cross, in NW Western Australia, on 12 April 1929.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=25654

Ed Coates collection - VH-UHW

The Sydney Morning Herald - 6 Dec 1928 - New seven passenger 'plane arrives
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 17:54
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Thankyou for all that research very interesting especially about les holden
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Old 12th Dec 2016, 22:51
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VictorGolf
With reference to the central control column on the Airtourer, AESL did not replace "it" and sell them back to the Australians, you are obviously thinking of the CT4B that already had 2 control columns that AESL supplied to the then British Aerospace-Ansett Flying College at Tamworth NSW in the early 1990's. Extra refurbished ex RNZAF CT4's were supplied to the College in the late 90's as more had become required for the military training contract

CC.
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Old 13th Dec 2016, 14:17
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Thought that was what I said?
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