Mystery Monoplane
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Mystery Monoplane
Can anyone out there identify this mystery monoplane? It is a two-seater and the rear cockpit is fitted with a Scarfe ring. The fuselage appears to be made of metal and the wing(s) are fabric-covered.
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This appears to be quite a puzzler..a crashed military aeroplane surrounded by civilians, at least two of which look oriental. The mansion with the tall chimney visible in the upper right corner of the photograph adds to the mystery.
How did you come into possession of the photograph?
How did you come into possession of the photograph?
Last edited by evansb; 3rd Nov 2015 at 16:36.
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That's a real headscratcher, that one.
As pulse1 says, the scene has an American flavour to it.
The time-frame appears to be around the mid-twenties.
The hero on the wing looking proprietorial looks like he's part of an act.
I think it WAS a biplane prior to its mishap.
The powerplant looks to be a geared W12 (broad arrow) configuration.
There were 4 makes of W12 around at that time (Napier, Sunbeam, Lorraine and Farman).
The Yanks (USAAC) previously operated a number of two-seat Potez 25s.
Two versions of the two-seat Potez 25 used Lorraine and Farman W12 engines.
So, it's just possible it could be a Lorraine-engined Potez 25 used as part of an act in the roaring twenties - somewhere in the USA.
That's my theory for the moment, anyway.
.
As pulse1 says, the scene has an American flavour to it.
The time-frame appears to be around the mid-twenties.
The hero on the wing looking proprietorial looks like he's part of an act.
I think it WAS a biplane prior to its mishap.
The powerplant looks to be a geared W12 (broad arrow) configuration.
There were 4 makes of W12 around at that time (Napier, Sunbeam, Lorraine and Farman).
The Yanks (USAAC) previously operated a number of two-seat Potez 25s.
Two versions of the two-seat Potez 25 used Lorraine and Farman W12 engines.
So, it's just possible it could be a Lorraine-engined Potez 25 used as part of an act in the roaring twenties - somewhere in the USA.
That's my theory for the moment, anyway.
.
Last edited by Stanwell; 3rd Nov 2015 at 17:05.
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Hi Guys,
That mansion looks French to me and I wonder if the wreck is the result of the failed take-off attempt on the record flight from Etampes to Siberia mentioned below.
The aircraft Potez 28 G.R. built in 1927 and equipped with Farman 18We 500 hp engine, pilot Lionel de Marmier broke several records in flight range with cargo, but on September 13, 1927 while trying to establish yet another record-range with this aircraft, when the weight caused a tyre to burst and the aircraft was destroyed; the pilots escaped unhurt!
The engine cowling looks correct for a Farman and the elevators and rigging do too.
Just a thought, but it would account for all the civilians and Hero-worship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potez_28
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/law1/potez28.html
Originally Posted by evansb
This appears to be quite a puzzler..a crashed military aeroplane surrounded by civilians, at least two of which look oriental. The mansion with the tall chimney visible in the upper right corner of the photograph adds to the mystery.
The aircraft Potez 28 G.R. built in 1927 and equipped with Farman 18We 500 hp engine, pilot Lionel de Marmier broke several records in flight range with cargo, but on September 13, 1927 while trying to establish yet another record-range with this aircraft, when the weight caused a tyre to burst and the aircraft was destroyed; the pilots escaped unhurt!
The engine cowling looks correct for a Farman and the elevators and rigging do too.
Just a thought, but it would account for all the civilians and Hero-worship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potez_28
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/law1/potez28.html
Last edited by SincoTC; 3rd Nov 2015 at 19:01. Reason: Corrected designation as per post below
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Wasn't the Potez 28M a parasol-wing design?
I think it just might be a Breguet Bre-19. I think the photo was taken on location, (Kelly Field, San Antonio, Texas), of American director William Wellman's classic 1927 silent film Wings. The climax of the story comes with the epic Battle of Saint-Mihiel, ( The Battle of Saint-Mihiel was a World War I battle fought from 12–15 September 1918, involving the American Expeditionary Forces and 110,000 French troops under the command of General John J. Pershing of the United States against German positions. The United States Army Air Service played a significant role in this action). The leading man is shot down and presumed dead. However, he survives the crash landing, steals a German biplane, and heads for the Allied lines. By a tragic stroke of bad luck, Jack spots the enemy aircraft and, bent on avenging his friend, begins an attack. He is successful in downing the aircraft and lands to retrieve a souvenir of his victory. The owner of the land where David's aircraft crashed urges Jack to come to the dying man's side.
Here is a link to the movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wings_(1927_film)
Here is a photo of the entrance to Kelly Field, circa 1917:
I think it just might be a Breguet Bre-19. I think the photo was taken on location, (Kelly Field, San Antonio, Texas), of American director William Wellman's classic 1927 silent film Wings. The climax of the story comes with the epic Battle of Saint-Mihiel, ( The Battle of Saint-Mihiel was a World War I battle fought from 12–15 September 1918, involving the American Expeditionary Forces and 110,000 French troops under the command of General John J. Pershing of the United States against German positions. The United States Army Air Service played a significant role in this action). The leading man is shot down and presumed dead. However, he survives the crash landing, steals a German biplane, and heads for the Allied lines. By a tragic stroke of bad luck, Jack spots the enemy aircraft and, bent on avenging his friend, begins an attack. He is successful in downing the aircraft and lands to retrieve a souvenir of his victory. The owner of the land where David's aircraft crashed urges Jack to come to the dying man's side.
Here is a link to the movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wings_(1927_film)
Here is a photo of the entrance to Kelly Field, circa 1917:
Last edited by evansb; 3rd Nov 2015 at 17:57.
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I think we could be getting warm, chaps.
The mansion does look typically French.
The older woman on the far right looks typically French.
The wing with the hero standing on it could well be the stbd end of the parasol wing of the 28M.
p.s. As PB says though, the chord of that wing does look a bit narrow.
The mansion does look typically French.
The older woman on the far right looks typically French.
The wing with the hero standing on it could well be the stbd end of the parasol wing of the 28M.
p.s. As PB says though, the chord of that wing does look a bit narrow.
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Originally Posted by evansb
Wasn't the Potez 28M a parasol-wing design?
Yes it was, I meant to paste the bit that said Potez 28 G.R. (Grandes Raids or long distance flights) one of two Sesquiplanes built for record flights.
That had quite a narrow lower wing which seems to suit the photo and is in line with Planet Basher and Stanwell's observations.
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Originally Posted by evansb
I understand the justification, but would one attempt a record breaking long-distance flight with a Scarfe ring installed?
I'm thinking you may be onto it with the Lorraine powered Breguet Bre.19, That protuberance behind the centre cowl looks like it fits and there looks like the remains of a triangular pylon further back on the centreline!
