Dunsfold
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Dunsfold
I took my youngest son to Dunsfold yesterday to have a ride in a Ferrari. I noticed that there is a QRA apron to the north of runway 25/07 at either end. I have read several histories of Dunsfold airfield but none of them mentions who spent a lot of money having these QRA aprons built and why. Does anyone out there have the answer?
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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They were both there when I first operated from Dunsfold in 1963.
My feeling (but I do not quote it as a fact) is that they cropped up all over the UK in the 50s to give fighter command more flexibility for dispersed readiness operations.
If that is correct then it should be possible to research the general topic quite easily.
My feeling (but I do not quote it as a fact) is that they cropped up all over the UK in the 50s to give fighter command more flexibility for dispersed readiness operations.
If that is correct then it should be possible to research the general topic quite easily.
Hello JW.
I don't think anyone 'spent a lot of money' on what you see at Dunsfold. The simple paved areas to which you refer were known as ORPs - Operational Readiness Platforms - constructed contiguous to the runway at numerous Fighter Command airfields 'in the 50s' as JF says. They saved on lengthy taxying if the balloon went up. You could park as many cabs as you could safely squeeze in, and there was no shelter. Start the day-jets and blast-off. I think the services available to ORPs were restricted to a telephone landline (or Very Pistol from the Tower) and whatever ground equipment could be towed from the hangar. Usually constructed at each end of the main runway, they were mostly of concrete but occasionally tarmac surfaced. Some fighter airfields had only one, some had three or four. I don't think the expression Q or QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) was in vogue at that time.
Later on, Fighter Command built Q-Sheds away from the runway - shelters which kept out the rain and were fully serviced. They then progressed to the now very popular HASs (Hardened Aircraft Shelters) which were supposed to keep out the hard rain as well. Apparently you can live in a HAS with your individual cab and ground crew, and taxy in, and out the other end if both doors were open.
QRA for the V-force brought those larger, fully serviced pans contiguous to the runway. These were only constructed at one end of the main runway, and could accommodate four (or sometimes only two) V-bombers, with soft areas and services in between each separate parking slot. I have no idea of the cost of any of these installations.
I will post some examples in a mo, but in the mean time there's a chat show here - though at first sight some of the statements look a bit wild or woolly.
ORP's & ASP's - Page 2
HTH ......... LFH
I don't think anyone 'spent a lot of money' on what you see at Dunsfold. The simple paved areas to which you refer were known as ORPs - Operational Readiness Platforms - constructed contiguous to the runway at numerous Fighter Command airfields 'in the 50s' as JF says. They saved on lengthy taxying if the balloon went up. You could park as many cabs as you could safely squeeze in, and there was no shelter. Start the day-jets and blast-off. I think the services available to ORPs were restricted to a telephone landline (or Very Pistol from the Tower) and whatever ground equipment could be towed from the hangar. Usually constructed at each end of the main runway, they were mostly of concrete but occasionally tarmac surfaced. Some fighter airfields had only one, some had three or four. I don't think the expression Q or QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) was in vogue at that time.
Later on, Fighter Command built Q-Sheds away from the runway - shelters which kept out the rain and were fully serviced. They then progressed to the now very popular HASs (Hardened Aircraft Shelters) which were supposed to keep out the hard rain as well. Apparently you can live in a HAS with your individual cab and ground crew, and taxy in, and out the other end if both doors were open.
QRA for the V-force brought those larger, fully serviced pans contiguous to the runway. These were only constructed at one end of the main runway, and could accommodate four (or sometimes only two) V-bombers, with soft areas and services in between each separate parking slot. I have no idea of the cost of any of these installations.
I will post some examples in a mo, but in the mean time there's a chat show here - though at first sight some of the statements look a bit wild or woolly.
ORP's & ASP's - Page 2
HTH ......... LFH
Last edited by Lordflasheart; 19th Oct 2015 at 10:46. Reason: clarification
Some examples for the above – currently visible on Gurgle Earth.
E&OE and precise runway designators not guaranteed.
ORPs
Seemingly one end only. - Leeming - 34 t/hold. Tangmere - t/hold 25. Tengah 36 t/hold only. North Luffenham - 26 t/hold with Phantom still on permanent alert ! Bentwaters – one evident on the old R/W 25 t/hold before extension. Coningsby - 25 t/hold only.
Both ends - Dunsfold - each end 25. Linton - each end 04. Odiham - each end 28. North Weald - each end 02. Butterworth - each end 36. Strubby - each end 07. Binbrook - each end 03. Ouston - each end 05. Wethersfield - each end of pre- lengthened 28. Thorney - both ends 19. West Raynham - each end of 02. Waterbeach – each end 04. Cranwell - both ends R/W 27.
Four - Horsham St Faith - each end of 22 and 27
Three - Middleton St George 23 t/hold and two on 05 due to runway extension.
Coltishall - 04 t/hold and two on R/W 22 due to R/W extn. Wattisham - 05 t/hold and two on 23 after rw extn.
V-Bomber QRA pans, contiguous with the runway.
Four place - Marham - 24 t/hold. Wyton - 27 t/hold. Gaydon - 23 t/hold. Scampton - 22 t/hold. Waddington - 20 t/hold. Cottesmore - t/hold 22 partly removed. Wittering - 26 t/hold.
Two place - Naval Air Stations had no ORPs but some had runway-contiguous two place V-bomber QRA pans. RNAS Lossie - remnants of 2 place V-bomber QRA pan visible on north side of 23 t/hold. RNAS Yeovilton - 2 place, south side of 27 t/hold. RNAS Brawdy - 2 place, north side of 20 t/hold.
Hybrids ? Honington was a V-bomber base but shows no 'proper' contiguous QRA pan. It has a single ORP at 27 t/hold which seems to have been painted to park V-bombers.
Places like Habbaniyah and Finningley have short extensions similar to ORPs, which may only be intended to provide turning space.
LFH
E&OE and precise runway designators not guaranteed.
ORPs
Seemingly one end only. - Leeming - 34 t/hold. Tangmere - t/hold 25. Tengah 36 t/hold only. North Luffenham - 26 t/hold with Phantom still on permanent alert ! Bentwaters – one evident on the old R/W 25 t/hold before extension. Coningsby - 25 t/hold only.
Both ends - Dunsfold - each end 25. Linton - each end 04. Odiham - each end 28. North Weald - each end 02. Butterworth - each end 36. Strubby - each end 07. Binbrook - each end 03. Ouston - each end 05. Wethersfield - each end of pre- lengthened 28. Thorney - both ends 19. West Raynham - each end of 02. Waterbeach – each end 04. Cranwell - both ends R/W 27.
Four - Horsham St Faith - each end of 22 and 27
Three - Middleton St George 23 t/hold and two on 05 due to runway extension.
Coltishall - 04 t/hold and two on R/W 22 due to R/W extn. Wattisham - 05 t/hold and two on 23 after rw extn.
V-Bomber QRA pans, contiguous with the runway.
Four place - Marham - 24 t/hold. Wyton - 27 t/hold. Gaydon - 23 t/hold. Scampton - 22 t/hold. Waddington - 20 t/hold. Cottesmore - t/hold 22 partly removed. Wittering - 26 t/hold.
Two place - Naval Air Stations had no ORPs but some had runway-contiguous two place V-bomber QRA pans. RNAS Lossie - remnants of 2 place V-bomber QRA pan visible on north side of 23 t/hold. RNAS Yeovilton - 2 place, south side of 27 t/hold. RNAS Brawdy - 2 place, north side of 20 t/hold.
Hybrids ? Honington was a V-bomber base but shows no 'proper' contiguous QRA pan. It has a single ORP at 27 t/hold which seems to have been painted to park V-bombers.
Places like Habbaniyah and Finningley have short extensions similar to ORPs, which may only be intended to provide turning space.
LFH
Thread Starter
LordF:
I thank you for your comprehensive reply. Having served as a pilot in the RAF for 18 years I am fairly au fait with what they were. My question, which I obviously did not make very clear, was why Dunsfold in particular had QRA pans since I am not aware of any fighter squadrons ever being based there.
They were obviously not there for the benefit of Bomber Command so I think John Farley is right; probably a Fighter Command contingency plan put into action around the time of the Korean War.
Talking of which, I cannot begin to remember the number of Bomber Command standbys that I did. I would imagine that for every 20 standbys I only had one Mickey Finn.
Anyway, once again my thanks for your efforts.
JohnF:
Many thanks for your reply. By the way, I had lunch with Eddie a couple of weeks ago.
I thank you for your comprehensive reply. Having served as a pilot in the RAF for 18 years I am fairly au fait with what they were. My question, which I obviously did not make very clear, was why Dunsfold in particular had QRA pans since I am not aware of any fighter squadrons ever being based there.
They were obviously not there for the benefit of Bomber Command so I think John Farley is right; probably a Fighter Command contingency plan put into action around the time of the Korean War.
Talking of which, I cannot begin to remember the number of Bomber Command standbys that I did. I would imagine that for every 20 standbys I only had one Mickey Finn.
Anyway, once again my thanks for your efforts.
JohnF:
Many thanks for your reply. By the way, I had lunch with Eddie a couple of weeks ago.
The ORP adjacent to 25 threshold is used as the visitor's apron nowadays despite its proximity (less than 75m) to the runway centreline but as it's unlicensed the operators can get away with it!
The VTOL 'pad' is on the other one adjacent to 07 threshold.
The VTOL 'pad' is on the other one adjacent to 07 threshold.
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The 07 end one was a grid over a hole not a pad. This was to allow the exhaust gases to go thought the ground plane rather than bounce off the ground. This in effect gave 'free air' conditions - or much closer to those than over the solid.
The one at the 25 end is a 'modern' concrete pad that was fitted in the very old concrete ORP which was getting tired of jet blast.
The one at the 25 end is a 'modern' concrete pad that was fitted in the very old concrete ORP which was getting tired of jet blast.
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Sorry chaps. I should have looked at google earth before my post above.
The grid at the W end has clearly been covered over with some sort of brown/orange pad. Plus they have added another ditto small rectangle.
At the E end the concrete pad I mentioned has an H on it.
I dunno wot the other pad of similar colour at the E end is. Never seen it before.
The grid at the W end has clearly been covered over with some sort of brown/orange pad. Plus they have added another ditto small rectangle.
At the E end the concrete pad I mentioned has an H on it.
I dunno wot the other pad of similar colour at the E end is. Never seen it before.
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Golly I really must sharpen up my memory!!!
This pic was taken 1984/1985 and clearly shows a (less rusty) metal pad added to the E end to reduce chances of FOD when operating vertically. I reemember now!
This pic was taken 1984/1985 and clearly shows a (less rusty) metal pad added to the E end to reduce chances of FOD when operating vertically. I reemember now!
chevvron,
It's still used for a/c parking during the Wings & Wheels displays.
I'm wondering how many of the mods referred to above may be to accommodate a certain BBC motoring extravaganza...
It's still used for a/c parking during the Wings & Wheels displays.
I'm wondering how many of the mods referred to above may be to accommodate a certain BBC motoring extravaganza...
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Remember visuting the Dunfold area on a bike ride, probably early fifties, found Hurricanes with Portugese markings parked among the trees. Did not know whether they were coming or going.
Anyone know?
Anyone know?
Presumably the Portuguese hurris used for the Film 'Angels One Five' (filmed at Kenley)
Jul 51
Used in the Battle of Britain period film `Angels One Five', starring Jack Hawkins and John Gregson, alongside five borrowed Portuguese Air Force Hurricanes. Filmed at RAF Kenley. Taxied in a couple of scenes and may have actually flown - coded in No.56 Squadron markings as US-B/’P2619’.
(After the Battle 30 and photo in Combat Codes Flintham/Thomas 2003 Appendix F) or, less likely, possibly used in static studio ‘crash’ shots at Elstree.
Six airworthy Hurricanes used, also Science Museum Hurricane L1592.
Used in the Battle of Britain period film `Angels One Five', starring Jack Hawkins and John Gregson, alongside five borrowed Portuguese Air Force Hurricanes. Filmed at RAF Kenley. Taxied in a couple of scenes and may have actually flown - coded in No.56 Squadron markings as US-B/’P2619’.
(After the Battle 30 and photo in Combat Codes Flintham/Thomas 2003 Appendix F) or, less likely, possibly used in static studio ‘crash’ shots at Elstree.
Six airworthy Hurricanes used, also Science Museum Hurricane L1592.
May well be, but for the short period (about 3 months in early 2011) I did A/G there, it was a car park and visiting aircraft were parked on the ORP.
The car circuit is mostly at the west end of the airfield and they use the central taxiway link too as well as the runway. They get really shirty if you clear them from the runway to let (horror of horrors) an aircraft land and the pilot chooses to do a wide circuit so they consider they've been denied the runway for too long.
Last edited by chevvron; 11th Nov 2015 at 02:45.
