Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Aviation History and Nostalgia
Reload this Page >

Spitfire bent at Biggin.

Aviation History and Nostalgia Whether working in aviation, retired, wannabee or just plain fascinated this forum welcomes all with a love of flight.

Spitfire bent at Biggin.

Old 14th Aug 2015, 14:25
  #41 (permalink)  
hum
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: zzzz
Posts: 147
Think drag

Not a comment on this accident or Dan's decision, however, just in case folks are tempted to put a turn-back in their 'repertoire' a word of caution.. please think carefully about doing turnbacks in GA piston aircraft.. Unless you actually stop the engine I believe any practice turnback training is unrealistic and may lead to false expectations in a real failure. There can be significantly more drag from a windmilling prop than from a prop being driven by an engine at idle. If you have a fixed pitch prop there is not a lot you can do in the real situation, if its a VP prop you could try to reduce the RPM which will reduce drag a little. If the prop is stopped (ie engine is siezed) you are probably best off, but will still glide more steeply than if it were driven by an idling engine.. Add 'startle factor' and the fact that most GA aircraft are not equipped with AoA indication nor are pilots trained to understand its significance, then the chances of pulling off a successful turnback following an EFATO are slim..
hum is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2015, 16:11
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Torquay UK
Age: 90
Posts: 163
windmills

Wind milling props produce oodles of drag! (think what an autogyro can do)
They also wreck the airflow over the tail.
Rule of thumb- keep straight on take offs and landings.
Or clean trousers please.
wilyflier is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2015, 18:48
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,513
From the previous 2 posts about prop drag I would expect the PF to stuff the nose down, assess the glide angle & height and make a decision. Every situation is different. It is not a one size fits all. Much depends, as has been said, on height, a/c & experience.
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2015, 15:58
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: derbyshire
Posts: 21
Bent Spitfire

RFC manual:
"In the event of engine failure on take off, pilots will land straight ahead regardless of obstacles".
derbyshire is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2015, 01:11
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: nowhere
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by derbyshire View Post
RFC manual:
"In the event of engine failure on take off, pilots will land straight ahead regardless of obstacles".
That has to be one of the most foolish policies I have ever seen. I can see a policy of no turnarounds having logic but to mandate a straight ahead landing when 30 degrees to the right could be a field versus apartment buildings is dangerous.
JammedStab is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2015, 06:37
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 9,808
RFC manual
That has to be one of the most foolish policies I have ever seen.
I suspect it made more sense in a B.E.2 or a Sopwith Camel ...
DaveReidUK is online now  
Old 19th Aug 2015, 09:54
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: nowhere
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
I suspect it made more sense in a B.E.2 or a Sopwith Camel ...
Almost as much sense as the no parachute policy.
JammedStab is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2015, 10:31
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nowhere near Shinbone Waterhole
Posts: 201
Spitfire bent at Biggin.

Sorry to hear it. Has the cause of the failure been determined yet?
mikedreamer787 is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2015, 12:43
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: europe
Age: 62
Posts: 640
Is it true that he was attempting to get the gear down while at the same time trying to get back to the field?
deefer dog is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2015, 09:41
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 2
impressive contributions have been made regarding turnbacks and technique

but the slipping turn has not been mentioned as such ?
iirc Brian Lecomber recommended this as giving the least height loss

my impression is that steep slipping top-rudder turns in the circuit were normal pre WW2
in the USA there's tight 700' circuits
in the Pitts 50deg bank letting the stick forward to maintain AoA seemed to get the job done
especially turning final
my instructor was ex Air Corps ie an 'old school' glide approach type
the plane is made (via its power/trim characteristics) to do the job if given a chance
Cromard is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2016, 16:23
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Santa Rosa, CA, USA
Age: 66
Posts: 169
Update on the cause

When the initial report is an accident happened because "the engine lost power" I'm always interested in exactly what caused the engine failure. From AAIB Bulletin: 3/2016 G-BRRA:

The aircraft took off from Runway 29 at Biggin Hill Airport. The pilot retracted the landing gear and reduced power to 2,400 rpm and +4 boost but, one or two seconds later, he heard the engine ‘cough’. This caused him some concern, so he turned the aircraft back towards the airfield, intending to climb overhead to investigate before proceeding en-route. A few seconds later, the engine lost power and the pilot could see flames coming from the right-hand exhaust pipes....
A limited examination of the engine after the accident suggested that a cylinder in the right bank had a broken inlet valve spring with a penetration of the associated induction flame trap.
PrivtPilotRadarTech is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.