Aviation Training Sqdn (Britannia) query
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Aviation Training Sqdn (Britannia) query
When I was loitering around Changi, with my camera in the early '60's, I always assumed that the endless stream of Britannia's coming and going were being operated by 99 and 511 Sqdn crews. However, whilst researching I've discovered that fore instance, the mad shuttle that took place from Changi to Labuan in early December 1962, when the Brunei crisis happened, also involved a crew from the Air Training Squadron (Britannia).
How often did training Brits make the journey to the Far East? I have not been able to find any Form 540/ORB documents at Kew for this unit and therefore wonder if the occasional lack of information about particular Brit flights that I have photographed at Changi reflect ATS(B) training flights?
I have a couple of images showing C2 versions, XN392 and XN398 that I can trace no details from with 99/511. Did the Britannia C2's get used more by the ATS(B) than the 'more useful' goods/pax configured Brit C1's? I know the C2's did more 'VIP work'.
I've noticed that the Form 540 bookkeeping was sometimes a little incorrect, as there are occasional details giving the same aircraft serial to more than one flight. But then with all that 'slipping' that went on I bet the crews weren't always sure which aircraft they were actually in!
A final 'ask': did the Changi Slip flights use 'Ascot' callsigns, or perhaps 'Rafair'?
Thanks David Taylor
FOCAL PLANES | 1960's AIRCRAFT PHOTOS FROM RAF CHANGI and SINGAPORE
How often did training Brits make the journey to the Far East? I have not been able to find any Form 540/ORB documents at Kew for this unit and therefore wonder if the occasional lack of information about particular Brit flights that I have photographed at Changi reflect ATS(B) training flights?
I have a couple of images showing C2 versions, XN392 and XN398 that I can trace no details from with 99/511. Did the Britannia C2's get used more by the ATS(B) than the 'more useful' goods/pax configured Brit C1's? I know the C2's did more 'VIP work'.
I've noticed that the Form 540 bookkeeping was sometimes a little incorrect, as there are occasional details giving the same aircraft serial to more than one flight. But then with all that 'slipping' that went on I bet the crews weren't always sure which aircraft they were actually in!
A final 'ask': did the Changi Slip flights use 'Ascot' callsigns, or perhaps 'Rafair'?
Thanks David Taylor
FOCAL PLANES | 1960's AIRCRAFT PHOTOS FROM RAF CHANGI and SINGAPORE
I joined 99 Sqn in September 1959 and looking at my log book the three C Mk 2 Britannias (392, 398 and 404) were used extensively to convert / train former Hastings pilots and crews onto type. ISTR the C Mk 2s lacked the freight door and strengthened floor of the C Mk 1s so were limited to training or Pax only loads.
My logbook shows one overseas (conversion) training flight to Nicosia in October 1959 in 398 and after that C Mk 1 flights predominated. Thereafter my log book shows the occasional overseas flights in a C Mk 2, but limited to Pax only.
I assume the later overseas training flights you refer to were route provers or with crews being converted to type.
My logbook shows one overseas (conversion) training flight to Nicosia in October 1959 in 398 and after that C Mk 1 flights predominated. Thereafter my log book shows the occasional overseas flights in a C Mk 2, but limited to Pax only.
I assume the later overseas training flights you refer to were route provers or with crews being converted to type.
Postfade:
I have just spent a wonderful hour down memory lane looking at your fabulous photographs. I was a pilot in Transport Command (and its undeserving successors) from 1962 until 1976 (Argosy and Belfast).
Thank you for making an old pilot happy.
I have just spent a wonderful hour down memory lane looking at your fabulous photographs. I was a pilot in Transport Command (and its undeserving successors) from 1962 until 1976 (Argosy and Belfast).
Thank you for making an old pilot happy.
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Warmtoast...thanks again for delving into your log books and memory for some info on how the Brit C2's were used.
JW411...yes I guess I hoped Brakedwell would pop in with some info and it's nice to get forum replies so others can chip in.
Thanks for the kind remarks about my photos on the website...sorry it's so long winded to view, 900 pics is just too many I know!
However I've finished a book of the best of them..well except for waiting for someone 'In Government' who has got the 209 Sqdn ORB out of the Kew Record Office, thus stopping me adding some more details about those Twin Pins and Singles.
Can I ask again what callsigns were UK Transport Command using in the early 60's on Far Eastern flights? Was 'Ascot' in use?
David T
FOCAL PLANES | 1960's AIRCRAFT PHOTOS FROM RAF CHANGI and SINGAPORE
JW411...yes I guess I hoped Brakedwell would pop in with some info and it's nice to get forum replies so others can chip in.
Thanks for the kind remarks about my photos on the website...sorry it's so long winded to view, 900 pics is just too many I know!
However I've finished a book of the best of them..well except for waiting for someone 'In Government' who has got the 209 Sqdn ORB out of the Kew Record Office, thus stopping me adding some more details about those Twin Pins and Singles.
Can I ask again what callsigns were UK Transport Command using in the early 60's on Far Eastern flights? Was 'Ascot' in use?
David T
FOCAL PLANES | 1960's AIRCRAFT PHOTOS FROM RAF CHANGI and SINGAPORE
The 23 strong Britannia fleet was shared by 99 and 511 and used for training by ATSB.
When I joined the fleet in 1966 the conversion course consisted of 12 weeks of ground school at Filton followed by another 12 weeks of ground school, simulator and 14 hours flying with ATSB at Lyneham. Then we were rewarded with a two week round the world global trainer carrying 2 ATSB crews and two trainee crews. We routed via Akrotiri - Bahrain - Gan - Tengah - Kai Tak - Guam - Honolulu - Hickham - Offutt - Gander - Lyneham.
I don't know when the end of course Global Trainers started, but I do know they were still going strong when I left in 1974. ATSB crews occasionally operated down the route without trainees to keep their hands in.
When I joined the fleet in 1966 the conversion course consisted of 12 weeks of ground school at Filton followed by another 12 weeks of ground school, simulator and 14 hours flying with ATSB at Lyneham. Then we were rewarded with a two week round the world global trainer carrying 2 ATSB crews and two trainee crews. We routed via Akrotiri - Bahrain - Gan - Tengah - Kai Tak - Guam - Honolulu - Hickham - Offutt - Gander - Lyneham.
I don't know when the end of course Global Trainers started, but I do know they were still going strong when I left in 1974. ATSB crews occasionally operated down the route without trainees to keep their hands in.
Postfade: I think you'll find that the 'Ascot' callsign was used after Transport Command became Air Support Command in 1967, and I'd be very surprised if the Brits were not using 'Rafair' before that. 'Ascot' survived ASC's later absorption into Strike Command, having been introduced as part of the many comms and other changes that made close control of the Air Transport Force a reality from the mid-60s. It was registered with ICAO as a company callsign.
