Ejection Stories
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember hearing about that Vulcan at Malta. Hadn't it just flown in from the Uk, and did a *very* heavy landing at Malta, then went-around. Air traffic transmitted that he'd just left most of his undercarriage on the runway, and somewhere on the downwind leg the badly damaged wing gave up and folded?
It must have been terrible to be a 'guy in the back' in a Vulcan.
SSD
It must have been terrible to be a 'guy in the back' in a Vulcan.
SSD
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,732
Received 361 Likes
on
200 Posts
I recall the Malta Vulcan too - there was a pic of it in Air Pictorial - must have been around 1976 - just as it was about to touch down on the fatal landing. The caption said the gear sheared off (presumably one of the main legs) and it "exploded" whilst going round the circuit.
I seem to recall hearing about the F-104 firing pilots out of the bottom as well - not much use at low level unless you had time to roll inverted. Can't quite see why you'd hit the tail in normal ejection... you don't in anything else. Can anyone explain?
Harrier - wasn't a USAF evaluation pilot killed after ejecting from a Kestrel at Dunsfold after it rolled through the vertical while hovering?
And Bill Bedford's engine failure in the hover at the Paris Air Show in a Kestrel or Harrier - straight down from around 50 feet! Bet he wished he HAD ejected as I think he broke both ankles or something!
I seem to recall hearing about the F-104 firing pilots out of the bottom as well - not much use at low level unless you had time to roll inverted. Can't quite see why you'd hit the tail in normal ejection... you don't in anything else. Can anyone explain?
Harrier - wasn't a USAF evaluation pilot killed after ejecting from a Kestrel at Dunsfold after it rolled through the vertical while hovering?
And Bill Bedford's engine failure in the hover at the Paris Air Show in a Kestrel or Harrier - straight down from around 50 feet! Bet he wished he HAD ejected as I think he broke both ankles or something!
Thread Starter
The German Guy in Mannchin ejected whilst 70*nose up and 130* rolled and at lowish speed and survived.
The eary 104 did bang out downwards but dont forget they were optimised for high alt intercept mode and it would not make a difference. The mfr did however switch to normal ejection mode (ie up) very soon afterwards.
It was only when european air forces started to use the 104 that Martin Baker seats were fitted ad reversed the trend of killing pilots on ejection.
They were known as widow makers in USAF service. I think the original seat only had a 12% success rate.
The eary 104 did bang out downwards but dont forget they were optimised for high alt intercept mode and it would not make a difference. The mfr did however switch to normal ejection mode (ie up) very soon afterwards.
It was only when european air forces started to use the 104 that Martin Baker seats were fitted ad reversed the trend of killing pilots on ejection.
They were known as widow makers in USAF service. I think the original seat only had a 12% success rate.
Thread Starter
The USAF exchange pilot ejected when it was about 10'off the ground in a 110* starboard roll and pitched nose down. This was caught very dramatically on film. He was way outside the seat envelope.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,732
Received 361 Likes
on
200 Posts
Glad to hear that they changed the config in the F-104; by low level I meant, as much as anything, EFATO, approach and all that. Things never go wrong then do they?
By the original seat, I assume you mean the downwards jobbie?
Another good ejection story I heard was about one of the Red Arrows who hit the runway at Akrotiri in a Hawk while recovering from a loop. As the aircraft disintegrated around him he pulled the "oh sh*t" handle and survived. That one true? And accurate?
God Bless James Martin, eh?
By the original seat, I assume you mean the downwards jobbie?
Another good ejection story I heard was about one of the Red Arrows who hit the runway at Akrotiri in a Hawk while recovering from a loop. As the aircraft disintegrated around him he pulled the "oh sh*t" handle and survived. That one true? And accurate?
God Bless James Martin, eh?
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,732
Received 361 Likes
on
200 Posts
I think the F-104 was known as the "Widow Maker " every where. The Luftwaffe loss rate was appalling. 25%? Not sure how how the Belgian, Dutch, Italian and Norwegian losses compared. The Canucks lost a few as well, sold most of the left-overs to Turkey.
Thread Starter
If anyone has any photographs of seats, or actual ejections I would be glad to receive them for the website.
www.ejectorseats.co.uk
Many thanks
www.ejectorseats.co.uk
Many thanks
As an aside, I thought the F-104 got it's "Widowmaker" tag cos the Luftwaffe had the bright idea of turning a high altitude interceptor into a fighter-bomber? Given the teeny wings it's not surprising that it lacked a bit at low level.
Re the Vulcan crash at Malta, I was actually lying on the grass near the runway threshold - we were on some sort of taceval standby at the time, as I recall.
The aircraft was a 'lone ranger' on its way to Cyprus, so also had a crew chief on board. The approach looked normal enough, but in the last 200ft or so it became very apparent that the rate of descent was very high. It was at this point that I do remember getting to my feet very quickly and moving backwards.
The aircraft hit the piano keys very hard, and the nose also dropped very hard. The main undercarriage was driven into the wing roots, but this was not obvious at the time. Full power was applied, and with the aircraft being relatively light it got airborne again rapidly.
The nose gear could be seen bent rearwards at a slight angle. More ominous was the immediate fire that appeared on the top of the starboard wing.
The aircraft turned left and climbed to about 1500ft downwind, and we assumed they were heading out to sea to eject/bail out. A lot of us were shouting at this stage for the crew to get out. By this stage, the fire was very fierce. A few seconds later, the aircraft banked sharply to the left, and we thought the pilot was going to attempt another landing. That was rapidly followed by a huge flash, and the right wing detached. I do not recall hearing any sound of the explosion, but did see both ejection seats travel nearly horizontally for what seemed like forever, before the chutes deployed.
The starboard wing landed in the main street of a small town called Zabbar, and the ensuing fireball travelled rapidly up the road . A woman sitting in a car got out & tried to outrun the fire and was killed. The main fuselage landed in a school playground. Since it was early afternoon, the local population were enjoying their siestas, and no-one else on the ground was injured.
The pilots both recovered, though I believe the captain didn't fly again. This was the second Vulcan ejection for him, though on the first occasion the rear crew also got out. This time, the damaged nose gear had apparently jammed the escape hatch.
The aircraft was a 'lone ranger' on its way to Cyprus, so also had a crew chief on board. The approach looked normal enough, but in the last 200ft or so it became very apparent that the rate of descent was very high. It was at this point that I do remember getting to my feet very quickly and moving backwards.
The aircraft hit the piano keys very hard, and the nose also dropped very hard. The main undercarriage was driven into the wing roots, but this was not obvious at the time. Full power was applied, and with the aircraft being relatively light it got airborne again rapidly.
The nose gear could be seen bent rearwards at a slight angle. More ominous was the immediate fire that appeared on the top of the starboard wing.
The aircraft turned left and climbed to about 1500ft downwind, and we assumed they were heading out to sea to eject/bail out. A lot of us were shouting at this stage for the crew to get out. By this stage, the fire was very fierce. A few seconds later, the aircraft banked sharply to the left, and we thought the pilot was going to attempt another landing. That was rapidly followed by a huge flash, and the right wing detached. I do not recall hearing any sound of the explosion, but did see both ejection seats travel nearly horizontally for what seemed like forever, before the chutes deployed.
The starboard wing landed in the main street of a small town called Zabbar, and the ensuing fireball travelled rapidly up the road . A woman sitting in a car got out & tried to outrun the fire and was killed. The main fuselage landed in a school playground. Since it was early afternoon, the local population were enjoying their siestas, and no-one else on the ground was injured.
The pilots both recovered, though I believe the captain didn't fly again. This was the second Vulcan ejection for him, though on the first occasion the rear crew also got out. This time, the damaged nose gear had apparently jammed the escape hatch.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Dun Laoghaire
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it was Chuck Yeager's autobiography (Yeager) where he mentions two test pilots in a T-38 or something like that. Anyway some emergency happened (can't remember the details) and the navigator punched out and the pilot stayed in and managed a safe landing. The interesting thing was that in the subsequent investigation it was claimed that if the navigator hadn't punched out he would have been killed and if the pilot had punched out he would have been killed. So both survived!
Also a friend of mine whose father flew Canberras tells me a story of how one of the canberra pilots was a bit of a joker and one day sprang a hoax emergency fire in the left engine on his navigator just to see how he would react. Two seconds later the navigator was gone! Apparently it was standard op. procedure to punch out given this particular emergency so the navigator didn't think twice about it. The prankster pilot methinks got in a bit of how water.
Not sure how much truth there is to either of these stories and suspect that they have been 'embellished' over the years.
As for widowmakers, I believe Spain used them for years without a single loss, y eso no esta mal!
Irlandés
Also a friend of mine whose father flew Canberras tells me a story of how one of the canberra pilots was a bit of a joker and one day sprang a hoax emergency fire in the left engine on his navigator just to see how he would react. Two seconds later the navigator was gone! Apparently it was standard op. procedure to punch out given this particular emergency so the navigator didn't think twice about it. The prankster pilot methinks got in a bit of how water.
Not sure how much truth there is to either of these stories and suspect that they have been 'embellished' over the years.
As for widowmakers, I believe Spain used them for years without a single loss, y eso no esta mal!
Irlandés
There was a case some years ago of an aircraft dropping skydivers, I think a Turbo Porter, which developed a problem shortly after take off.
All the skydivers, plus the pilot, baled out. One of them was killed in the process, but the aircraft landed intact and was put back into service!
All the skydivers, plus the pilot, baled out. One of them was killed in the process, but the aircraft landed intact and was put back into service!
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JimGriff,
Around August 1998 I was preparing for a flight at Boscombe Down when we were delayed due to a cracked window which had occurred as the result of a ground pressure test. We were lying around on the grass next to the aircraft, happily munching our way through our butty boxes when a two-seat Hunter went out on a test flight having been through a ground overhaul.
Shortly afterward it returned, circled overhead, and commenced ( in my view ) a steep approach. When it was abeam us, it was clear something was wrong, as the aircraft was moving too fast. We jumped to our feet, in time to watch the drag chute stream and snap away from its cable. The aircraft continued at high speed down the runway, when there were two bangs, rather like a shotgun, follwed by the appearance of two parachutes. The aircraft pitched up, then yawed before hitting the ground and exploding. The two guys got out, I believe one suffered a broken ankle.
Ref the F104, I understand that the reason for the downward ejecting seat was that at the time the 104 was entering service, the bang seats of the time did not have the performance to get a pilot clear of the T-tail at high speeds, hence the solution was a downward ejecting seat. The two guys referred to in a T38 were, if memory serves, flying an F104 two seater. One punched out, correctly, the other stayed with the ship, and it was found afterward that his seat ( guide rails? ) had been twisted, hence he would not have ejected properly.
BTW, a mate of mine managed to blag a free lunch in the MB stand at Farnborough when we were there last week, on account of disposing of one of Her Majesty's aircraft and earning himself a place on a BOI and a funny blue tie in the process.
Around August 1998 I was preparing for a flight at Boscombe Down when we were delayed due to a cracked window which had occurred as the result of a ground pressure test. We were lying around on the grass next to the aircraft, happily munching our way through our butty boxes when a two-seat Hunter went out on a test flight having been through a ground overhaul.
Shortly afterward it returned, circled overhead, and commenced ( in my view ) a steep approach. When it was abeam us, it was clear something was wrong, as the aircraft was moving too fast. We jumped to our feet, in time to watch the drag chute stream and snap away from its cable. The aircraft continued at high speed down the runway, when there were two bangs, rather like a shotgun, follwed by the appearance of two parachutes. The aircraft pitched up, then yawed before hitting the ground and exploding. The two guys got out, I believe one suffered a broken ankle.
Ref the F104, I understand that the reason for the downward ejecting seat was that at the time the 104 was entering service, the bang seats of the time did not have the performance to get a pilot clear of the T-tail at high speeds, hence the solution was a downward ejecting seat. The two guys referred to in a T38 were, if memory serves, flying an F104 two seater. One punched out, correctly, the other stayed with the ship, and it was found afterward that his seat ( guide rails? ) had been twisted, hence he would not have ejected properly.
BTW, a mate of mine managed to blag a free lunch in the MB stand at Farnborough when we were there last week, on account of disposing of one of Her Majesty's aircraft and earning himself a place on a BOI and a funny blue tie in the process.
There is a story on Jim G's site about a high speed ejection from a Lightning. High speed I think equates to around mach 0.96 with 500mph wind blast.
Not very pleasant, but the pilot concerned flew again and is still flying today.
M
Not very pleasant, but the pilot concerned flew again and is still flying today.
M
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Abingdon, Oxfordshire, U.K.
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Akrotiri, early `60`s, PR9 Canberra.
"O.K. Sarge, I`ve disarmed that seat."
Sarge picks up spring balance and walks to pan, stands on Navs seat, hooks spring balance into seat pan handle and pulls. Big Bang. Sarge says "Oh ****, wrong aircraft."
He survived because the frangible panel was removed and, as he was leaning forward to look at the scales, he sort of rolled off the front of the seat as it went up. He landed flat on his back on the rear fuselage and slid to the ground, unhurt. As he went out, the Verey pistol ripped the side off his left shoe.
Mike W
"O.K. Sarge, I`ve disarmed that seat."
Sarge picks up spring balance and walks to pan, stands on Navs seat, hooks spring balance into seat pan handle and pulls. Big Bang. Sarge says "Oh ****, wrong aircraft."
He survived because the frangible panel was removed and, as he was leaning forward to look at the scales, he sort of rolled off the front of the seat as it went up. He landed flat on his back on the rear fuselage and slid to the ground, unhurt. As he went out, the Verey pistol ripped the side off his left shoe.
Mike W
Join Date: May 2001
Location: AUS
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not an ejection but relates to the issue I suppose.
Apparently a RAAF PC-9 on a low level training Nav got into a bit of a dilema. As it was a nav there was the instructor and student (student in the front) and part way throught the instructor asked the student if he would like a minty. When he tried to pass the minty to the student it fell to the floor and underneath one of the seats, out of reach. This would have required the removal and inspection of the seat (so I am told) because of the possibility of damage to any of the firing mechanisms and not wanting to have to go back and tell anyone decided to do what any full minded person would have done. He told the student that he was taking over and rolled the aircraft inverted thinking that the minty would 'fall' to the canopy and the student could grab it - problem over. Not quite. As I said this was a nav and so as soon as it went inverted all the associated nav gear went with the minty, pens, maps, pencils etc. The poor old student and instructor got some weekly award for stupidity after that.
Apparently a RAAF PC-9 on a low level training Nav got into a bit of a dilema. As it was a nav there was the instructor and student (student in the front) and part way throught the instructor asked the student if he would like a minty. When he tried to pass the minty to the student it fell to the floor and underneath one of the seats, out of reach. This would have required the removal and inspection of the seat (so I am told) because of the possibility of damage to any of the firing mechanisms and not wanting to have to go back and tell anyone decided to do what any full minded person would have done. He told the student that he was taking over and rolled the aircraft inverted thinking that the minty would 'fall' to the canopy and the student could grab it - problem over. Not quite. As I said this was a nav and so as soon as it went inverted all the associated nav gear went with the minty, pens, maps, pencils etc. The poor old student and instructor got some weekly award for stupidity after that.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,732
Received 361 Likes
on
200 Posts
There is a story about a student parachutist whose 'chute opened while he was exiting a Cessna 180 - he got hung up in the aircraft and apparently a photo exists of the C180, student and pilot all coming down suspended under the canopy. Both survived, thgough I can't comment on how the Cessna fared!
My question: anyone got a copy of that photo, I'd love to see it!
My question: anyone got a copy of that photo, I'd love to see it!
Thread Starter
These stories are great.
If anyone knows anyone whose ejected please ask them to contact me.
My e-mail is on the website:
www.ejectorseats.co.uk
If anyone knows anyone whose ejected please ask them to contact me.
My e-mail is on the website:
www.ejectorseats.co.uk