Another mystery Canberra?
Been co-located twice with 51, at Watton and Wyton ( always wondered if the idea was to confuse Ivan with the similar sounding names). As is the case with "secrecy", often wondered about the detail of what they did, and presumably will do in the future
All right, exactly was probably the wrong word to use, however, as very little else has been published about 51 Sqn's activities, this book is a step in the right direction, particularly about Washington, Comet R1 and Canberra operations. The Warsaw Pact monitored the flight of these aircraft whenever they were near their borders, so I believe it's high time the veil of outdated secrecy was lifted on these particular operations, although I suspect those involved would completely disagree.
At some point in the future I assume a more detailed book describing Nimrod R1 operations will eventually be published and I look forward to reading it - perhaps Yellow Sun might like to contribute!!
At some point in the future I assume a more detailed book describing Nimrod R1 operations will eventually be published and I look forward to reading it - perhaps Yellow Sun might like to contribute!!
The "veil" has been lifted a little before. I would recommend:
Richard J. Aldrich, The Hidden hand, ISBN 0-7195-5423 3, pub 2001
and by the same author, GCHQ, ISBN 13 978-0-00-727847-3, pub 2010
You may or may not agree with the conclusions that he draws in the latter book.
In a broader sense, DJ Thorp's, The Silent Listener, ISBN 978 7524 7739 8, pub 2012, provides a good picture of some of the difficulties in operating in a sensitive environment.
What Listening In clearly depicts is the degree of oversight that was exercised in respect of RPFs. The Foreign Office took them very seriously and their influence was real.
It is an area that will always be difficult to research, for because of the classification of the activities there was little opportunity to record the more personal accounts and thus the record will always appear sparse and somewhat thin. By the time that other agencies have consented to the release of details, the passing years will have thinned out the participants and much will have been lost forever.
YS
PS Heimdall I have sent you a couple of PMs
Last edited by Yellow Sun; 26th Jul 2014 at 09:49. Reason: Additional text
As an example of the secrecy still surrounding RPFs, an recent-ish attempt get a document relating to Lancaster/Lincoln ops during the late 1940s declassified was rebuffed by the MoD on the grounds that it contained operational details and thus could be of assistance to a hostile power.
The idea that details of the conduct of a 1948 Lincoln sortie, with a single chap down the back twiddling his WW2-vintage receiver as the aircraft plodded along over the Baltic, could in any way compromise Rivet Joint operations seems fairly ludicrous to me, but there you are.
One unfortunate result of the unnecessary secrecy is that a lot of the participants in those operations won't get the wider recognition they deserve (at least, as Yellow Sun notes, probably not in their lifetimes).
The idea that details of the conduct of a 1948 Lincoln sortie, with a single chap down the back twiddling his WW2-vintage receiver as the aircraft plodded along over the Baltic, could in any way compromise Rivet Joint operations seems fairly ludicrous to me, but there you are.
One unfortunate result of the unnecessary secrecy is that a lot of the participants in those operations won't get the wider recognition they deserve (at least, as Yellow Sun notes, probably not in their lifetimes).
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincolnshire
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
XH132
XH132 was overall day-glo orange except for a black nose and a black band round the rear fuselage when she was rolled out. I have a very distant colour slideI took in May or June 1961 from Victoria Park, as near as you could get in those days to Sydenham. I saw her flying several times. Who then would have thought that years later I would fly her, firstly in overall silver, then after re-paint at Kemble, in Raspberry Ripple when on the Radar Research Squadron at Bedford. Queen of the Canberras.
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: north cheriton
Age: 80
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Graham Skillen
I wasn't exactly standing beside 'cometracer' but I have seen his colour slide and remember XH132 very clearly at Belfast, its colour scheme of orange dayglo being rather out of the ordinary.
Some serious thread drift, but those interested in 51Sqn's activities might like to read "My Secret Falklands War" by Sidney Edwards. It's available from a site that shares its name with a South American river.
YS
YS
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Bradford
Age: 64
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SC.9
Hi cometracer
I'd be very interested in seeing the the slide if you still have it? As you will have gathered I was told by people in the know that she was indeed day-glo at the time of roll out. Going by the B&W photos I have I was 99% sure this was correct but a colour photo would remove the 1% doubt.
John
I'd be very interested in seeing the the slide if you still have it? As you will have gathered I was told by people in the know that she was indeed day-glo at the time of roll out. Going by the B&W photos I have I was 99% sure this was correct but a colour photo would remove the 1% doubt.
John
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Bradford
Age: 64
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SC.9
Hi Rossian
Yes indeed there was, but unlike his PR.9 equivalent the "Nav" in the SC.9 had to climb a stepladder to enter the nose via the now hinged and later removable frangible hatch, not an easy task!
John
Yes indeed there was, but unlike his PR.9 equivalent the "Nav" in the SC.9 had to climb a stepladder to enter the nose via the now hinged and later removable frangible hatch, not an easy task!
John
canberrasig....
....thankyou for that. There was a chap on my IOT in '63 who went into PR9s and spent ALL of his flying career in that coal hole and I think he went on (as I did) until age 57. Last met in flight planning in Akrotiri for the first time since South Cerney (I recognised his Rhodesian?? accent).
The Ancient Mariner
The Ancient Mariner
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Bradford
Age: 64
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SC.9
No problem Rossian This is a photo of the crew preparing for a flight the hatch as been removed. As I said early on the hatch was hinged at the rear but this method was abandoned.
John
John
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: NOYFB
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Cometracer,
I would also love to see the colour shot of the dayglo XH132! Please??
I only saw her once, at Sydenham (I refuse to call it anything else!) in or around the 1984/85 timeframe.
She was taking off from Rwy 22, unfortunately I was walking to our line hut for a "wee burn" in a Bulldog and camera was nowhere to hand. She was, off course, in Raspberry Ripple at that stage. She looked absolutely stunning.
I've promised myself to build a model of her in these markings, but then found out about the rumoured dayglo scheme! Have now found four B&W shots of her at Sydenham in this scheme, but would love to see a splash of colour, no matter how distant.
Hope you can help,
Michael.
P.S. Also frequented Victoria Park, courtesy of my Gran, to view Short's finest in the late 60's/early 70's. Happy times!
I would also love to see the colour shot of the dayglo XH132! Please??
I only saw her once, at Sydenham (I refuse to call it anything else!) in or around the 1984/85 timeframe.
She was taking off from Rwy 22, unfortunately I was walking to our line hut for a "wee burn" in a Bulldog and camera was nowhere to hand. She was, off course, in Raspberry Ripple at that stage. She looked absolutely stunning.
I've promised myself to build a model of her in these markings, but then found out about the rumoured dayglo scheme! Have now found four B&W shots of her at Sydenham in this scheme, but would love to see a splash of colour, no matter how distant.
Hope you can help,
Michael.
P.S. Also frequented Victoria Park, courtesy of my Gran, to view Short's finest in the late 60's/early 70's. Happy times!
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
XV132
I found these three pictures, although still not colour Canberra Crazy - Canberra Pictures
scroll to the bottom of the listed page.
scroll to the bottom of the listed page.
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Newtownabbey
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm coming rather late to this, but I have been searching on and off for many years for information about a red Canberra. In the fifties as an eight or nine year old I saw a red Canberra taking off from Sydenham. It was, to m,e towards cherry red in colour and I'm sure it had black fixtures of some sort on the nose. As a kid I drew it many times and always put like an aerial array on the nose. It was taking off toward the city and became airbourne in line with the end of my street. I got the idea in my head that it was maybe something to do with weather research as it took off just after a thunder storm and I have the idea this happened at least twice over a period. The first time I am certain about, the additional time(s) not 100%. Our street ran at right angles to the runway and ended just beside the railway line so I got a great view of nany things.
Not to do with this forum but I saw the Seamew as it headed straight into the ground, disappeared behind the sheds then a huge pall of smoke, from my house window. From the railway bridge I saw the Short SC1 rising a few feet off it's pad. I also sneaked into the park to see the wreck of a vampire? that crashed just after take-off, mystified the guards how we got in (the bendy bar<G>).
Not to do with this forum but I saw the Seamew as it headed straight into the ground, disappeared behind the sheds then a huge pall of smoke, from my house window. From the railway bridge I saw the Short SC1 rising a few feet off it's pad. I also sneaked into the park to see the wreck of a vampire? that crashed just after take-off, mystified the guards how we got in (the bendy bar<G>).
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Bradford
Age: 64
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm coming rather late to this, but I have been searching on and off for many years for information about a red Canberra. In the fifties as an eight or nine year old I saw a red Canberra taking off from Sydenham. It was, to m,e towards cherry red in colour and I'm sure it had black fixtures of some sort on the nose. As a kid I drew it many times and always put like an aerial array on the nose. It was taking off toward the city and became airbourne in line with the end of my street. I got the idea in my head that it was maybe something to do with weather research as it took off just after a thunder storm and I have the idea this happened at least twice over a period. The first time I am certain about, the additional time(s) not 100%. Our street ran at right angles to the runway and ended just beside the railway line so I got a great view of nany things.
It's a shame you didn't get a photo juke12, I'm still searching for that holy grail
John
It's a shame you didn't get a photo juke12, I'm still searching for that holy grail
John
XH132 features in Mike Brooks rather good book Trials and Errors about his career as a test pilot. Indeed there are two pictures of it....both in B&W, but both sporting a black nose and a single colour fuselage, albeit late in its career at the RRS
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Newtownabbey
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Canberra I saw I remember as having the 'bubble' type cockpit, like the German red ones. I have only seen the German ones on Google so they're not interfering with my recollection! I suppose the years could dull the details but two things I'm clear on is that it was all red and had an array of some description protruding from the front. I have seen a white Canberra with the bubble cockpit and a single long probe out the front online today. It may not be real as so many models look so good in small pics but I would be happy to accept it was 'mine' if only it had red paint. Probably never find an answer to my quest.
Kids didn't carry cameras in those days<G> and I was just playing out in the street when it appeared so wouldn't have got a shot of it anyway.
Kids didn't carry cameras in those days<G> and I was just playing out in the street when it appeared so wouldn't have got a shot of it anyway.
