BAC 1-11 ZH763 Engine Runs Newquay 19th April 2014
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BAC 1-11 ZH763 Engine Runs Newquay 19th April 2014
There are now some videos of the engine run on Saturday 19th April available to view on You Tube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_F16I0m6k4#t=94
Enjoy a very special experience!
Peter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_F16I0m6k4#t=94
Enjoy a very special experience!
Peter
Thanks, mrshubigbus. Yes, chevvron, thereby hangs a few tales. The CSDS drive-shaft was fairly easy to shear, particularly if one was resorting to "milking" the HP-cock in an attempt to avoid over-temperature (of EGT) during start.
For the uninitiated, the (unique?) feature of the Spey is that the AC generator's CSD (constant-speed drive, to maintain 400Hz on the AC electrics), driven by the accessory gearbox on the N2 (HP) spool, is also used in the opposite sense - to enable the air-starter to turn the N2 spool for engine start. If the air-start pressure is poor, the N2 may peak at an N2 rpm below the recommended value for opening the HP cock (i.e., introducing the fuel). Opening the HP cock then results in a more rapid rise in EGT than normal and - if the max EGT is likely to be exceeded - the HP cock has to be closed before the limit is reached. However, some pilots (and dare I say engineers?) would then try to reopen the HP cock immediately the EGT started to fall. The resulting change in torque sometimes sheared the CSDS drive shaft.
Poor air-start pressure may result from a knackered APU, or (if the APU is u/s) an external-air truck that is not man enough for the job. Like many engines of its generation, the Spey is inclined to hot starts on cold, damp, winter's mornings. Damp igniters can delay light-up, and a wet start may result.
For the uninitiated, the (unique?) feature of the Spey is that the AC generator's CSD (constant-speed drive, to maintain 400Hz on the AC electrics), driven by the accessory gearbox on the N2 (HP) spool, is also used in the opposite sense - to enable the air-starter to turn the N2 spool for engine start. If the air-start pressure is poor, the N2 may peak at an N2 rpm below the recommended value for opening the HP cock (i.e., introducing the fuel). Opening the HP cock then results in a more rapid rise in EGT than normal and - if the max EGT is likely to be exceeded - the HP cock has to be closed before the limit is reached. However, some pilots (and dare I say engineers?) would then try to reopen the HP cock immediately the EGT started to fall. The resulting change in torque sometimes sheared the CSDS drive shaft.
Poor air-start pressure may result from a knackered APU, or (if the APU is u/s) an external-air truck that is not man enough for the job. Like many engines of its generation, the Spey is inclined to hot starts on cold, damp, winter's mornings. Damp igniters can delay light-up, and a wet start may result.
Last edited by Chris Scott; 27th Apr 2014 at 11:41.
Hi Chris,
When the CAF bought ZA148 they had the option of purchasing the engines as well. I cannot remember the exact figures but I seem to recall that they were a couple of thousand quid each. After its last landing the engines were removed and must have travelled back to Brize or to Bruntingthorpe. They were most likely sold on to a surplus dealer, I don't know where they ended up I'm afraid.
When the CAF bought ZA148 they had the option of purchasing the engines as well. I cannot remember the exact figures but I seem to recall that they were a couple of thousand quid each. After its last landing the engines were removed and must have travelled back to Brize or to Bruntingthorpe. They were most likely sold on to a surplus dealer, I don't know where they ended up I'm afraid.
Quote
For the uninitiated, the (unique?) feature of the Spey is that the AC generator's CSD (constant-speed drive, to maintain 400Hz on the AC electrics), driven by the accessory gearbox on the N2 (HP) spool, is also used in the opposite sense - to enable the air-starter to turn the N2 spool for engine start.
Unique to the Spey installation in the 1-11 I think!
We certainly used a conventional CSD and separate starter in the Trident installation and although I don't know, I think Fokker did the same in the F28.
For the uninitiated, the (unique?) feature of the Spey is that the AC generator's CSD (constant-speed drive, to maintain 400Hz on the AC electrics), driven by the accessory gearbox on the N2 (HP) spool, is also used in the opposite sense - to enable the air-starter to turn the N2 spool for engine start.
Unique to the Spey installation in the 1-11 I think!
We certainly used a conventional CSD and separate starter in the Trident installation and although I don't know, I think Fokker did the same in the F28.
I agree and yes I confirm F28 conventional.
In practice, I think many of my colleagues will agree, the CSDS was a bad idea.
Didn't weigh much less than a conventional CSD either !
In practice, I think many of my colleagues will agree, the CSDS was a bad idea.
Didn't weigh much less than a conventional CSD either !
Some BAC One-Elevens that went to the USA had a different starter and separate CSD for the generator. No special noise on start.
I remember working nights at Gatwick in the early 80's and there would be 2 or 3 departures in the early hours. On a still summer night I think you could hear a 1-11 start up from Horsham and then the take-off would be heard all over west sussex.
I think this last 1-11 and VC-10 should be kept flying to show people who complain about noise what real noise was.
I remember working nights at Gatwick in the early 80's and there would be 2 or 3 departures in the early hours. On a still summer night I think you could hear a 1-11 start up from Horsham and then the take-off would be heard all over west sussex.
I think this last 1-11 and VC-10 should be kept flying to show people who complain about noise what real noise was.
Sorry guys, that was sloppy of me. It should have read:
"...the (unique?) feature of the Spey on the One-Eleven is..."
Jhieminga,
Regarding the VC10 Conways, that's a great shame. I for one would have been willing to put up some cash to help sponsor one of them. That's no criticism of the museum, which has done so well to rescue the airframe. Pity, though. The hum of the 4 Conways at idle - perhaps in combination with the A/C packs - is uniquely evocative of ops from divers airfields worldwide. And the sound of them at full chat is glorious.
dixi188,
"I think this last 1-11 and VC-10 should be kept flying to show people who complain about noise what real noise was."
Many a true word... And to think we used to do our base traininng at LGW on both types. That included, of course, the routine S/E G/As on the One-Eleven, and G/As using three, two, or even one engine on the VC10.
As for the noise at Horley in a westerly wind, I remember having my first recurrent audiogram at (Dr) Ron Wambeek's house, circa 1971. He had a rudimentary acoustic booth, IIRC, but the sound of Speys on take-off was no match for it. Hopeless! Years later, the general consensus was that the hush kit was a waste of space.
I've never heard a noise campaigner admit that, on take-off, a B777 is radically quieter than a One-Eleven. At peak times, there must have been nearly as many movements at Gatwick per hour in those days as there are today.
"...the (unique?) feature of the Spey on the One-Eleven is..."
Jhieminga,
Regarding the VC10 Conways, that's a great shame. I for one would have been willing to put up some cash to help sponsor one of them. That's no criticism of the museum, which has done so well to rescue the airframe. Pity, though. The hum of the 4 Conways at idle - perhaps in combination with the A/C packs - is uniquely evocative of ops from divers airfields worldwide. And the sound of them at full chat is glorious.
dixi188,
"I think this last 1-11 and VC-10 should be kept flying to show people who complain about noise what real noise was."
Many a true word... And to think we used to do our base traininng at LGW on both types. That included, of course, the routine S/E G/As on the One-Eleven, and G/As using three, two, or even one engine on the VC10.
As for the noise at Horley in a westerly wind, I remember having my first recurrent audiogram at (Dr) Ron Wambeek's house, circa 1971. He had a rudimentary acoustic booth, IIRC, but the sound of Speys on take-off was no match for it. Hopeless! Years later, the general consensus was that the hush kit was a waste of space.
I've never heard a noise campaigner admit that, on take-off, a B777 is radically quieter than a One-Eleven. At peak times, there must have been nearly as many movements at Gatwick per hour in those days as there are today.
Last edited by Chris Scott; 28th Apr 2014 at 13:09. Reason: Minor tweeks, and spelling.
Originally Posted by Chris Scott
Regarding the VC10 Conways, that's a great shame. I for one would have been willing to put up some cash to help sponsor one of them. That's no criticism of the museum, which has done so well to rescue the airframe. Pity, though. The hum of the 4 Conways at idle - perhaps in combination with the A/C packs - is uniquely evocative of ops from divers airfields worldwide. And the sound of them at full chat is glorious.
And here's ZA150 moving under her own power in December 2013:
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Blue note
Having had the pleasure of working at Thumrait for eleven years, it was always a pleasure to hear the blue note as the 1-11 descended to land, particularly if you were sat in the terminal.
Does anybody know the origin of the blue note!!
Does anybody know the origin of the blue note!!
