Channel 4 Programme on Tirpitz Sinking
Cool Mod
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No no 
- thanks for getting in touch so soon.
I'll give you a clue I lived then about 1.5 miles from Croydon I was at a school which is about the same distance. I still live in the area but a couple of miles further to the west.
The German aircraft will be of great interest too, if the type is known.
PPP
- thanks for getting in touch so soon. I'll give you a clue I lived then about 1.5 miles from Croydon I was at a school which is about the same distance. I still live in the area but a couple of miles further to the west.
The German aircraft will be of great interest too, if the type is known.
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If you check out this web site - it gives details of all of the German raids during the battle including units where known - then you may find the low raid on Croyden.
List of Website Contents
List of Website Contents
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Thanks Wensleydale. A very good reference. I was both excited, and frightened, as a 10 year old boy able to see the BoB relevant to my overhead view so close to Croydon. However the incident that 500N has mentioned, for me, would have been in 1941 while I was in the juniors at school.
I wait with great interest, which could possibly help to solve a 74 year old mystery.
PPP
I wait with great interest, which could possibly help to solve a 74 year old mystery.
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PPRuNe Pop
I reckon you would have been the same age as my Uncle or Aunt during the war. Geoffrey or Bromwyn Granter ? Any recall ?
1941 sounds about right.
Here is a question for you. Did you used to watch the V1's coming and then run like hell or stay and watch depending on when the engine started spluttering, run if it started to splutter as it was coming towards you or stay and watch if it was still motoring along.
You know you can never picture your parents as being anything but parents, well always used to laugh at the fact that out of the 3 children, my mother could beat everyone down from the top of the Cherry Tree in the back garden where they used to watch them to the Anderson Shelter
I reckon you would have been the same age as my Uncle or Aunt during the war. Geoffrey or Bromwyn Granter ? Any recall ?
1941 sounds about right.
Here is a question for you. Did you used to watch the V1's coming and then run like hell or stay and watch depending on when the engine started spluttering, run if it started to splutter as it was coming towards you or stay and watch if it was still motoring along.
You know you can never picture your parents as being anything but parents, well always used to laugh at the fact that out of the 3 children, my mother could beat everyone down from the top of the Cherry Tree in the back garden where they used to watch them to the Anderson Shelter
500N - Parents as you see them? As I get older, I find it increasingly difficult to reconcile the image of the Dad I knew, and the guy on top of a 100ft turntable ladder in the London blitz, or my Mother (5' 2" and would blow away in a strong breeze) as a firewatcher and extinguisher of incendiary bombs!
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500N. I have thought about this a lot and I think I can safely say that the German aircraft was a Ju 88. It was at about 100 feet at the time and came over our school playground and started firing as it flew away over a very high oak tree. No one was hurt or killed.
In 1940 the 88 only had one gun that fired upwards. It was in 1941 they fitted two machine guns in either side of the fuselage. Raising the crew from two to four - three were gunners. It was one or both that was firing at us. It can only have a very short burst(s) because the tree had to be negotiated. 2, maybe 3 seconds - that would be quite a few rounds but fortunately they didn't harm us. There was no fear as I recall - it was too exciting to us 10 year olds.
The heading of the 88 (now I have worked it out) would have taken it directly to Croydon and the surrounding area. Addiscombe would be passed around a max of 2 minutes later on the same heading and about 1/4 mile north of Croydon airfield. I have always wondered what happened to the 88 now I feel I do know. After all this time! If available I would like some details please.
As to your next question about the V1's. In July 1944 my mother my sister and I were walking from shopping for what was available and had to pass St. Helier Hospital, Carshalton. Surrey. We had reached a point in line with the middle of the hospital when we suddenly heard the sound of a V1. As we looked up for it, it's engine stopped and we had to run to the entrance of a nearby shelter (75 yards or so) the bomb exploded and caused us to tumble down the slope into the shelter. My mother had bad grazes as did my sister and I got a bad bang on an elbow.
We came out a few minutes later to see what had happened. Where it exploded there was a doctor residence. Behind it were nurses quarters now called Ferguson House. The face of the building had enormous lumps of cladding made of cement blown from it, all the glass had blown inwards as had local houses roughly within a radius 500 yards in every direction. The crater was not very deep but, of course, it relied mostly on its blast effect. No-body was killed there either, although some received some serious injuries.
I did have ONE very narrow escape when I stupidly went to pick up what turned out to be a 'butter fly bomb'. A policeman saw my intent and shouted louder than anyone has EVER shouted before!! I think. Another time was when two or three of us climbed a tree to see if we get some parachute cord off mine that was hanging unexploded! I got caned by the head for that one!!
Within two weeks of the V1 incident my mother evacuated us all up to Derby and six months later we came home to V2's. The nearest explosion to us was in Tooting, South London. About 5 miles away.
That Ju 88 incident has haunted me all this time and I would like to know where it was shot down. In those early days of the war we did have mobile Bofors guns in the streets. Good morale boosters for sure.
We also had a battery of 4.7 inch guns on an emplacement on Mitcham Common, very noisy almost every night during the blitz. They were about a mile away.
PPP
In 1940 the 88 only had one gun that fired upwards. It was in 1941 they fitted two machine guns in either side of the fuselage. Raising the crew from two to four - three were gunners. It was one or both that was firing at us. It can only have a very short burst(s) because the tree had to be negotiated. 2, maybe 3 seconds - that would be quite a few rounds but fortunately they didn't harm us. There was no fear as I recall - it was too exciting to us 10 year olds.
The heading of the 88 (now I have worked it out) would have taken it directly to Croydon and the surrounding area. Addiscombe would be passed around a max of 2 minutes later on the same heading and about 1/4 mile north of Croydon airfield. I have always wondered what happened to the 88 now I feel I do know. After all this time! If available I would like some details please.
As to your next question about the V1's. In July 1944 my mother my sister and I were walking from shopping for what was available and had to pass St. Helier Hospital, Carshalton. Surrey. We had reached a point in line with the middle of the hospital when we suddenly heard the sound of a V1. As we looked up for it, it's engine stopped and we had to run to the entrance of a nearby shelter (75 yards or so) the bomb exploded and caused us to tumble down the slope into the shelter. My mother had bad grazes as did my sister and I got a bad bang on an elbow.
We came out a few minutes later to see what had happened. Where it exploded there was a doctor residence. Behind it were nurses quarters now called Ferguson House. The face of the building had enormous lumps of cladding made of cement blown from it, all the glass had blown inwards as had local houses roughly within a radius 500 yards in every direction. The crater was not very deep but, of course, it relied mostly on its blast effect. No-body was killed there either, although some received some serious injuries.
I did have ONE very narrow escape when I stupidly went to pick up what turned out to be a 'butter fly bomb'. A policeman saw my intent and shouted louder than anyone has EVER shouted before!! I think. Another time was when two or three of us climbed a tree to see if we get some parachute cord off mine that was hanging unexploded! I got caned by the head for that one!!
Within two weeks of the V1 incident my mother evacuated us all up to Derby and six months later we came home to V2's. The nearest explosion to us was in Tooting, South London. About 5 miles away.
That Ju 88 incident has haunted me all this time and I would like to know where it was shot down. In those early days of the war we did have mobile Bofors guns in the streets. Good morale boosters for sure.
We also had a battery of 4.7 inch guns on an emplacement on Mitcham Common, very noisy almost every night during the blitz. They were about a mile away.
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PPRuNe
Well, isn't that interesting. If you were shot at by the same aircraft, that would be a coincidence.
My mother is in the UK at the moment - with her brother - so am awaiting an email back but it might be a few days.
My GM was very firm on being able to see the pilots face (? a face ?) as she looked up as it went past. Need to check if this is possible in a Ju 88.
I wonder if any records exist of Ju 88's or other German aircraft shot down over Croydon at that time. I would also like to know. Maybe finding out where the guns were might help as well.
I gather collecting shrapnel was every kids activity but as you found out, all was not the same. Glad you survived
Close one with the V1 and you obviously didn't get much warning with that one !
Well, isn't that interesting. If you were shot at by the same aircraft, that would be a coincidence.
My mother is in the UK at the moment - with her brother - so am awaiting an email back but it might be a few days.
My GM was very firm on being able to see the pilots face (? a face ?) as she looked up as it went past. Need to check if this is possible in a Ju 88.
I wonder if any records exist of Ju 88's or other German aircraft shot down over Croydon at that time. I would also like to know. Maybe finding out where the guns were might help as well.
I gather collecting shrapnel was every kids activity but as you found out, all was not the same. Glad you survived
Close one with the V1 and you obviously didn't get much warning with that one !
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We also had a battery of 4.7 inch guns on an emplacement on Mitcham Common, very noisy almost every night during the blitz. They were about a mile away.
However, I used to play on the emplacements for those guns on Mitcham Common, but I always thought they were 3.7 inch guns? 4.7's were Naval guns surely? And they would be big guns for ack-ack.
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Have a read of this.
Story of a 12 year old boy arnd London and he mentions the 3.7 inch guns
"Therefore I was out on the street in the dark, during an air raid with the 3.7 inch naval anti-aircraft (ack-ack) guns at Mitcham common gun site blazing away - a terrifying noise — which combined with the ‘blackout’ in full effect, was a unique experience for me. It meant, apart from being terrified, I could not see my way very well in the darkness, and had to rely upon my intimate geographical knowledge of the area, plus help from the searchlights which silhouetted buildings against the night sky, to make my way home."
BBC - WW2 People's War - WORLD WAR II RAMBLINGS - No.1. The BLITZ
Story of a 12 year old boy arnd London and he mentions the 3.7 inch guns
"Therefore I was out on the street in the dark, during an air raid with the 3.7 inch naval anti-aircraft (ack-ack) guns at Mitcham common gun site blazing away - a terrifying noise — which combined with the ‘blackout’ in full effect, was a unique experience for me. It meant, apart from being terrified, I could not see my way very well in the darkness, and had to rely upon my intimate geographical knowledge of the area, plus help from the searchlights which silhouetted buildings against the night sky, to make my way home."
BBC - WW2 People's War - WORLD WAR II RAMBLINGS - No.1. The BLITZ
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May I say that I'm chuffed to nuts to see a PPRuNe Moderator engaging in total Thread drift. I bet the prospect of the TIRPITZ emulating De Reuter and sailing up the Thames was terrifying. 
Fascinating stuff.
Pop,
I hope you have watched "Danger UXB" and in particular, these two episodes:
"Butterfly Winter"
"Seventeen Seconds to Glory" about parachute mines
Danger UXB - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pop,
I hope you have watched "Danger UXB" and in particular, these two episodes:
"Butterfly Winter"
"Seventeen Seconds to Glory" about parachute mines
Danger UXB - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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As to your next question about the V1's. In July 1944 my mother my sister and I were walking from shopping for what was available and had to pass St. Helier Hospital, Carshalton. Surrey. We had reached a point in line with the middle of the hospital when we suddenly heard the sound of a V1. As we looked up for it, it's engine stopped and we had to run to the entrance of a nearby shelter (75 yards or so) the bomb exploded and caused us to tumble down the slope into the shelter. My mother had bad grazes as did my sister and I got a bad bang on an elbow.
We came out a few minutes later to see what had happened. Where it exploded there was a doctor residence. Behind it were nurses quarters now called Ferguson House. The face of the building had enormous lumps of cladding made of cement blown from it, all the glass had blown inwards as had local houses roughly within a radius 500 yards in every direction. The crater was not very deep but, of course, it relied mostly on its blast effect. No-body was killed there either, although some received some serious injuries.
So far, donations have included photos depicting bomb damage from a V2 rocket during World War II and a visit to the nurses' school (formerly housed in the soon to be demolished Ferguson House) by Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother, in 1959.
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Found this as well. It certainly seems to have copped it's fair share of hits.
"History of St Helier Hospital
St Helier has a rich history, starting in 1938 when Queen Mary laid the first foundation stone at the site.
The first patients were admitted in 1941 and the building was completed in 1942. The cost of the rent at the time was just £1 a year.
Sadly, less than a month after completion, the hospital was damaged by a bomb dropped during an air raid in World War Two.
Further damage was caused throughout the war, and the hospital was struck by two flying bombs in June 1944.
However, St Helier remained open and continued to grow after the War."
"History of St Helier Hospital
St Helier has a rich history, starting in 1938 when Queen Mary laid the first foundation stone at the site.
The first patients were admitted in 1941 and the building was completed in 1942. The cost of the rent at the time was just £1 a year.
Sadly, less than a month after completion, the hospital was damaged by a bomb dropped during an air raid in World War Two.
Further damage was caused throughout the war, and the hospital was struck by two flying bombs in June 1944.
However, St Helier remained open and continued to grow after the War."
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I enjoyed this programme and even watched the repeat. A few flaws, of course, but very interesting and an amazing combination of skill, endurance, bravery and luck. Enemy or not, I did feel for the crew of the Tirpitz. To think that just 3 minutes difference and the Lancaster crews might have been decimated.
Thread drift!
A few years ago I bought a large photo re-print from the IWM of a Heinkel He 111 bomber over the Thames, partly because it's a favourite plane, partly because I can just make out the roof of my building (which was badly damaged by a bomb), and partly because I have a Heinkel car, made in Croydon's Trojan factory which was also badly damaged by a bomb.
Thread drift!
A few years ago I bought a large photo re-print from the IWM of a Heinkel He 111 bomber over the Thames, partly because it's a favourite plane, partly because I can just make out the roof of my building (which was badly damaged by a bomb), and partly because I have a Heinkel car, made in Croydon's Trojan factory which was also badly damaged by a bomb.
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Tirpitz was it appears a victim of a German officer who delayed, in one form or another, informing the fighter at Bardufoss of the incoming Lancasters. And ATC allowed a Ju52 to land before allowing the fighters to take off! I find something odd about the story but it definitely saved the Lancasters from a pasting.
I've just watched the programme, courtesy of a proxy server and I thought it was quite well done, if perhaps a bit long. Too many moody shots of Norwegian fjords and silent close-ups of the veterans.
I thought they inferred too much from the picture of the Wasserman radar facing inland. It was stated that the picture was taken after the war and given that the aerial was rotatable through 360 degrees, there could be many reasons for the direction it was facing.
However, I did learn that the Wasserman was just a series of stacked Freya aerials, something I hadn't noticed that before.
I thought they inferred too much from the picture of the Wasserman radar facing inland. It was stated that the picture was taken after the war and given that the aerial was rotatable through 360 degrees, there could be many reasons for the direction it was facing.
However, I did learn that the Wasserman was just a series of stacked Freya aerials, something I hadn't noticed that before.
Paxing All Over The World
just anoter jocky
I agree, but it's all about publicity to get people to watch the programme in the first place. 
India Four Two
Very much so! Likewise, the journalistic hype that, when the two fellows met the commentary was that '.. had nearly shot him down' which was not true. 'MIGHT have been involved in air combat' does not meet modern TV demands. Sadly. 
Drift
As to the comments about Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir Arthur Travers Harris, 1st Baronet, GCB, OBE, AFC (13 April 1892 – 5 April 1984): We can never know what it was like then, or the human reactions of those people. The same goes for the wars waged in former times in the Americas (New World), Sub-Continent, Africa and the rest of the world.
My paternal grandparents were killed by a V2 landing in their back garden (Ashford, Middlesex) on 28th October 1944. Equally, my father assisted in the killing of German people. He always said that it was horrible and had to be done. After the war, he was insistent that we understood that the German people were good folk who had been led astray.
In the 1990s he despaired of the way that Blair, and other young political men like Bush, wanted to make war., "They have not seen it and they do not know - but they should ask their fathers and grandfathers."
I don't think 9 Sqn or their association will be too pleased with almost all the emphasis going to 617 Sqn.
India Four Two
I thought they inferred too much from the picture of the Wasserman radar facing inland. It was stated that the picture was taken after the war and given that the aerial was rotatable through 360 degrees, there could be many reasons for the direction it was facing.
Drift
As to the comments about Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir Arthur Travers Harris, 1st Baronet, GCB, OBE, AFC (13 April 1892 – 5 April 1984): We can never know what it was like then, or the human reactions of those people. The same goes for the wars waged in former times in the Americas (New World), Sub-Continent, Africa and the rest of the world.
My paternal grandparents were killed by a V2 landing in their back garden (Ashford, Middlesex) on 28th October 1944. Equally, my father assisted in the killing of German people. He always said that it was horrible and had to be done. After the war, he was insistent that we understood that the German people were good folk who had been led astray.
In the 1990s he despaired of the way that Blair, and other young political men like Bush, wanted to make war., "They have not seen it and they do not know - but they should ask their fathers and grandfathers."
