Vickers Windsor - Prototype Accident?
Vickers Windsor - Prototype Accident?
I learned the other day that an RAF relative "got into severe trouble" after breaking a Vickers Windsor, perhaps in late 1943, perhaps the prototype.
Legend has it that the cause was an unintentional downwind landing at the end of a test flight.
I have seen in pprune archives a mention from Virgo in 2003 that the prototype crashed in flames in Wales, which seems to conflict with what I heard.
Can anyone throw any light on this? I've trawled Google with no real result apart from the pprune reference above.
I did learn a lot I didn't know about the aircraft. Rather ungainly, but designed by Barnes Wallis, packed with revolutionary features, and fast (317 Kt cruise).
Legend has it that the cause was an unintentional downwind landing at the end of a test flight.
I have seen in pprune archives a mention from Virgo in 2003 that the prototype crashed in flames in Wales, which seems to conflict with what I heard.
Can anyone throw any light on this? I've trawled Google with no real result apart from the pprune reference above.
I did learn a lot I didn't know about the aircraft. Rather ungainly, but designed by Barnes Wallis, packed with revolutionary features, and fast (317 Kt cruise).
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
The picture links don't appear to work, but there is a short article on Wiki, complete with photograph. It seems all three prototypes flew, but it doesn't give any details of how they ended up.
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I seem to remember reading an account of its flight trials many years ago which said the control column could be pushed or pulled 'some inches' before the elevator responded.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that a prototype Windsor crashed at night on to the former RAF Grove airfield near Wantage, Oxford - anyone confirm this?
I'm sure I've read somewhere that a prototype Windsor crashed at night on to the former RAF Grove airfield near Wantage, Oxford - anyone confirm this?
A dramatic incident took place on March 2 1944 when the exotic Vickers Armstrongs (sic) Windsor DW506 force-landed here (Grove) and was written off as a result. The accident occurred in poor weather when the large, unconventional and highly secret bomber was being flown by a pilot new to the type. A piece of metal had become lodged in the constant speed unit of the starboard inner propeller, as a result of which the engine could not be feathered. In the crash the bomber broke its back.
I think that must have been the landing that got my uncle into trouble. The word down-wind persists, although whether he had any option is another matter. I suspect the Powers-That-Be were less forgiving of a serving officer pilot in those days.
The accident injured him quite severely, and the after-effects gave him a lot of grief in later life.
He once told me that while he was immobile in hospital, a Board of Enquiry convened at his bedside. They gave him quite a hard time, and then left. The last member through the door turned, came back and produced a bottle of Scotch which he placed under the pillow, saying "you need a bloody stiff drink after those bastards". Then he hurried out after his colleagues.
It was Nat Somers, whom I met decades later when negotiating over a South Coast airport. His kindly side was not evident then, but clearly he had one, as well as a sense of humour.
Many thanks to all for the snippets of information.
The accident injured him quite severely, and the after-effects gave him a lot of grief in later life.
He once told me that while he was immobile in hospital, a Board of Enquiry convened at his bedside. They gave him quite a hard time, and then left. The last member through the door turned, came back and produced a bottle of Scotch which he placed under the pillow, saying "you need a bloody stiff drink after those bastards". Then he hurried out after his colleagues.
It was Nat Somers, whom I met decades later when negotiating over a South Coast airport. His kindly side was not evident then, but clearly he had one, as well as a sense of humour.
Many thanks to all for the snippets of information.
I think Captain Eric Brown flew the Windsor and if my memory is correct was not impressed. The wings tended to flap, but whether this was a design feature or a lack of strength I do not recall.
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Vickers Windsor
Hi Forumites
According to Eric Morgan, the pilot of DW506 was S/L English of the RAE. Yes, Eric Brown did fly the aircraft but, in his book did qualify the "frightening aspect" of the wing flexing by stating also that he "enjoyed flying the aircraft".
Three aircraft were completed - the first prototype, DW506 which first flew on the 23rd October 1943 from Farnborough and flown by "Mutt" Summers. The second prototype, DW512 was, according to Maurice Summers logbook, first flown on the 8th February 1944. The third aircraft, NK136, was first flown on the 18th July 1944, with Maurice Summers making its first flight. Both DW512 & NK136 were initially flown from Wisley.
Two other aircraft were constructed - NN670, which upon cancellation of the project was 95% completed and NN673, 65% completed.
Ignoring DW506 which was "cannibalised" following its Grove crash, DW512 was notified for disposal in June 1946, whist NK136 was flown to RAF Manby as a ground instruction aircraft. It was finally broken up in June 1948.
NN670 & NN763 were broken up in 1946.
According to Eric Morgan, the pilot of DW506 was S/L English of the RAE. Yes, Eric Brown did fly the aircraft but, in his book did qualify the "frightening aspect" of the wing flexing by stating also that he "enjoyed flying the aircraft".
Three aircraft were completed - the first prototype, DW506 which first flew on the 23rd October 1943 from Farnborough and flown by "Mutt" Summers. The second prototype, DW512 was, according to Maurice Summers logbook, first flown on the 8th February 1944. The third aircraft, NK136, was first flown on the 18th July 1944, with Maurice Summers making its first flight. Both DW512 & NK136 were initially flown from Wisley.
Two other aircraft were constructed - NN670, which upon cancellation of the project was 95% completed and NN673, 65% completed.
Ignoring DW506 which was "cannibalised" following its Grove crash, DW512 was notified for disposal in June 1946, whist NK136 was flown to RAF Manby as a ground instruction aircraft. It was finally broken up in June 1948.
NN670 & NN763 were broken up in 1946.
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According to Derek Collier Web and the ministry test flying accident archives:
The Gove accident on 2 March 1944 was DW506 captained by Mutt Summers and it took of from Farnborough.
The same source lists this as the only Windsor accident.
The Gove accident on 2 March 1944 was DW506 captained by Mutt Summers and it took of from Farnborough.
The same source lists this as the only Windsor accident.
Presumably there's no truth in the rumour that Mutt had originally asked to land at Brize, but was told "Remain outside the zone - one TriStar at 40 years...."
Last edited by BEagle; 10th Jan 2014 at 19:56.
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Vickers Windsor
John: Who is/was Derek Collier Web? Not sure about "Mutt" Summers being the pilot on that day. There was no entry in "Mutt" or Maurices's Logbooks indicating that they were the pilots of DW506. Also, in another logbook, it indicates that Roly Falk flew Captain Summers, M Summers and a "passenger" on that day, to and from Farnborough - Grove. I shall look at the records we hold at Brooklands next week...
Incidently, Barnes Wallis didn't design the Windsor or the Wellington or the Warwick They were the work of R K Pierson. He was the Chief Designer - Wallis was the Chief Structural Designer, under RKP
ttfn
Andy IFPSman
Incidently, Barnes Wallis didn't design the Windsor or the Wellington or the Warwick They were the work of R K Pierson. He was the Chief Designer - Wallis was the Chief Structural Designer, under RKP
ttfn
Andy IFPSman
Derek Collier Webb was a Sqdn Ldr at Farnborough in a non- flying role when I first went there. He produced various books using the archives held in the RAE Library which happened to be just across the road from his office!!
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Andy
chevvron has answered your question about D C-W. Thanks chevvron.
In his book on UK Flight Testing accidents 1940-71 (published by Air-Britain) D lists five references to this accident the most relevant to this thread being "Ministry of Defence Air Historical Branch Archives (Aircraft and Accident Records and Casuality Lists)"
JF
chevvron has answered your question about D C-W. Thanks chevvron.
In his book on UK Flight Testing accidents 1940-71 (published by Air-Britain) D lists five references to this accident the most relevant to this thread being "Ministry of Defence Air Historical Branch Archives (Aircraft and Accident Records and Casuality Lists)"
JF
S/Ldr Robert English was my uncle, so that ties that up and I'm grateful for all the information provided. He achieved fame later in life by starting the Gliding for the Disabled scheme which enhanced so many blighted lives in a way that nothing else could. He also bought and used as a business tool a Wallis Autogyro; he flew it to inspect farm buildings his company had put up in East Anglia.
l just wish that I had known before that what he was involved with was the Windsor; I could have asked him all about it.
I thought for a moment that Nat Somers and Mutt Summers might be one and the same, but they were not. Nat went on to design and build the first and only single engine jet light aircraft (4 seater, incredibly advanced for its time), while Mutt Summers was a test pilot on the Supermarine Swift, I believe, along with lots of other amazing things.
l just wish that I had known before that what he was involved with was the Windsor; I could have asked him all about it.
I thought for a moment that Nat Somers and Mutt Summers might be one and the same, but they were not. Nat went on to design and build the first and only single engine jet light aircraft (4 seater, incredibly advanced for its time), while Mutt Summers was a test pilot on the Supermarine Swift, I believe, along with lots of other amazing things.
Last edited by old,not bold; 12th Jan 2014 at 18:31. Reason: Typos!
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Vickers Windsor
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The first flight of Swift VV106 was undertaken by Mike Lithgow on the 29th December 1948. He and Dave Morgan did most of the early Swift flying from Chilbolton
The first flight of Swift VV106 was undertaken by Mike Lithgow on the 29th December 1948. He and Dave Morgan did most of the early Swift flying from Chilbolton