Crew Personalities causing crashes?

[Patrin]

Just out of interest does anybody happen to know any air crashes or incidents caused by the personality of the flight crew causing conflict with each other or misunderstanding leading to a crash?

Such as the Staines disaster with the Trident or potentially the crash of the two 747s in Tenerife?

Grateful for any replies.

[DaveReidUK]

All the CRM in the world is not going to save these guys unfortunately.

I'd have thought that CRM is exactly what would have prevented those accidents.

[sandiego89]

Type "o ye of little faith helicopter video" into your favorite search engine. Watch the short video. A classic.

[DaveReidUK]

Not when your culture is hard wired in such a way that contravenes every aspect of CRM. KE realised they had a problem, tried to fix it yet still have a major problem. There are many expats who've worked for KE. Some of the way they were treated by company and crew were deplorable at best.

But that's my point - it's not the application of CRM that causes those problems, it's the absence of it.

[A37575]

But that's my point - it's not the application of CRM that causes those problems, it's the absence of it.

Believe me. It is all very well to be starry eyed about fixing these types of out of this world cultures - but they are unfixable. Rudyard Kipling knew this when he wrote the Ballad of East and West

Rudyard Kipling (1865–1936)

OH, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,

And that exactly how it is with Asian culture. Forget even trying.

[Juan Tugoh]

The B52 at Fairchild AFB in 1994.

[KAL Foreign Crew]

KAL has evolved with CRM/JCRM

Things are very different now within KAL, unlike in those days. Statistics have proven the positive changes and the Insurers has accepted this new benchmark with a 30% discount on the premiums. How's that for a change?

[Centaurus]

But that's my point - it's not the application of CRM that causes those problems, it's the absence of it.

All very fine in theory. I agree with Spicejetter's views. Having trained pilots in the simulator from that part of the world, the problem being you can push the whole CRM gambit in the class room and simulator and you will get lots of head nodding in apparent agreement. Once in the control seats however, hundreds of years of oriental culture kicks back in and that usually means complete subservience to the senior figure- usually the captain - although it could even be the flight engineer.

Hopefully, unless political correctness is allowed to influence the deliberations of the investigating team assigned to the Asiana Boeing 777 crash at SFO, then I would expect the culture aspect involving the flight crew will be exposed in the final report. The absence of CRM may be true, but unless you have seen at first hand, ethnic culture at work on a flight deck, it is difficult to imagine what a flight safety disaster it can be. CRM is simply incompatible to certain cultures.

[Groundloop]

Pan Am had a number of 707 losses in the 1960s that were partly attributed to the old flying boat "Skygod" attitude among certain captains.