RAF Cosford no longer getting a VC10?
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XR808 is staying at Bruntinghthorpe as a ground runner according to the people there this morning.
I can't see how one could be moved by road without hacking it to pieces.
I can't see how one could be moved by road without hacking it to pieces.
I'm sure that it was mentioned somewhere on pprune that the last flight(s) will be in September, with some event at Brize Norton ? Does this mean that Cosford will now not get a VC10, or is there a new plan in place ?
SHJ
SHJ
Interesting that the CAS is being criticised for the decision when:
- it's not known with certainty whether he made it,
- if he did, his reasons,
- if he did, what information and advice he was given by those with VC10 expertise and experience,
nor - if it was a CAS decision, which CAS.
Whoever decided not to land XR808 at Cosford most likely had a good reason for it, and since neither of us was going to be at the pointy end of the aircraft in question, we don't get a say in this.
ICM made a good point:
But I repeat, this should all have been sorted out ages ago - long before there was any question of CAS' manhood being called into question. It's a very sorry end to a most creditable era in RAF history.
I really feel that the RAF Museum should have a VC10 to commemorate its 47 years of service. This VC10 would have a secure future and would be preserved in a museum condition. Not everyone agrees with keeping aircraft idle in a hangar or on an airfield which is why there is also room for a 'runner' at Bruntingthorpe. Whether this should be another C1K or a different version, I don't care but if we can achieve two preserved military VC10s then we've got the best of both worlds.
Let's hope that we can get to this point.
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Proplinerman -The scrapping of the airliners at Cosford was as much the fault of the RAFM as BA. BA provided a large amount of funding for years to sustain the collection -the RAFM benefited from admission fees and additions to its collection that it didn't have to pay for ! It should be pointed out that there wouldn't be a Britannia (308F) on display at Cosford if it wasn't for BA but its always easier to blame BA rather than see the RAFM wanting to clear room for it's 'exciting' new building project!
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I would gently remind everyone that no VC10 (or any other aeroplane) is "preserved" until it is permanently under cover.
The slow but deadly disintegration outdoors of the last surviving BOAC VC10s should serve as a reminder of this.
RAF Museum or not, Cosford seems unable to offer covered space for one in the forseeable future.
The last RAF VC10s might therefore be safer elsewhere in the long run.
The slow but deadly disintegration outdoors of the last surviving BOAC VC10s should serve as a reminder of this.
RAF Museum or not, Cosford seems unable to offer covered space for one in the forseeable future.
The last RAF VC10s might therefore be safer elsewhere in the long run.
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Riley Dove: interested to see your comment, as I had always suspected that the building of the "Cold War jets hall" at Cosford, coinciding as it did with the removal or scrapping of several of the airliners, was no coincidence.
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I agree that blaming CAS directly might be unwise, at it might not have been his decision. Point is, whoever made the decision ought to be ashamed of himself! I fail to see how anyone could argue that a VC10 could not land safely at Cosford when the aircraft's performance clearly indicates that it could, and as we know, one VC10 already did land there safely.
But I also agree that even if Cosford did acquire a VC10, it wouldn't necessarily be "preserved" there. Clearly, it would be doomed to stay outdoors as the Cold War Museum doesn't have room for anything new (possibly its greatest fault - it's never going to be any different no matter how many times you visit it). Maybe there is some hope of a new hall being built sometime in the distant future but somehow I doubt it, therefore any new acquisitions are likely to languish outdoors for a long time, if not forever. We know from experience that sooner or later, the powers-that-be at Cosford will decide that aircraft left outdoors should be dumped.
It seems likely that any VC10 (and I guess this applies to the Nimrod already?) would remain outdoors until Cosford either lose interest in it, or decide that it makes the site untidy, as happened with the airliner collection. They will doubtless claim that the aircraft is unsafe, or beyond economical restoration (as happened to the unique Vulcan B1). If Health & Safety zealots continue to infect our lives, it also seems likely that aircraft left outdoors will be declared a risk (little Johnny might climb through the barrier and stand underneath it and a wing might drop him at any moment).
So, I go back to one of my previous posts. The whole issue goes beyond the VC10 saga. We already seem to have a situation where Cosford decline aircraft if they are deemed too big to fly-in, or too expensive to transport by road. They have a demonstrable dislike for externally collections of any great size, so in all respects Cosford has become another Hendon.
Perhaps we've reached a stage where the preservation people need to start suggesting that the RAFM find another site to pursue longer-term preservation, or perhaps look at ways of working with IWM so that Duxford takes-on aircraft that RAFM cannot or will not save? Or maybe Duxford's also too small to accept a VC10-sized aircraft these days?!
But whatever happens, it seems pretty likely that only Bruntingthorpe will save an example of the RAF's mighty VC10. Well done RAFM... Well done IWM...
But I also agree that even if Cosford did acquire a VC10, it wouldn't necessarily be "preserved" there. Clearly, it would be doomed to stay outdoors as the Cold War Museum doesn't have room for anything new (possibly its greatest fault - it's never going to be any different no matter how many times you visit it). Maybe there is some hope of a new hall being built sometime in the distant future but somehow I doubt it, therefore any new acquisitions are likely to languish outdoors for a long time, if not forever. We know from experience that sooner or later, the powers-that-be at Cosford will decide that aircraft left outdoors should be dumped.
It seems likely that any VC10 (and I guess this applies to the Nimrod already?) would remain outdoors until Cosford either lose interest in it, or decide that it makes the site untidy, as happened with the airliner collection. They will doubtless claim that the aircraft is unsafe, or beyond economical restoration (as happened to the unique Vulcan B1). If Health & Safety zealots continue to infect our lives, it also seems likely that aircraft left outdoors will be declared a risk (little Johnny might climb through the barrier and stand underneath it and a wing might drop him at any moment).
So, I go back to one of my previous posts. The whole issue goes beyond the VC10 saga. We already seem to have a situation where Cosford decline aircraft if they are deemed too big to fly-in, or too expensive to transport by road. They have a demonstrable dislike for externally collections of any great size, so in all respects Cosford has become another Hendon.
Perhaps we've reached a stage where the preservation people need to start suggesting that the RAFM find another site to pursue longer-term preservation, or perhaps look at ways of working with IWM so that Duxford takes-on aircraft that RAFM cannot or will not save? Or maybe Duxford's also too small to accept a VC10-sized aircraft these days?!
But whatever happens, it seems pretty likely that only Bruntingthorpe will save an example of the RAF's mighty VC10. Well done RAFM... Well done IWM...
Last edited by WH904; 3rd Aug 2013 at 09:03.
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The last BA Standard VC10 Victor Mike was flown into Cosford by Bill Outram in '79.
I remember him around that time frequently reminding us all of his earnest desire to collect his substantial and imminent pension! I doubt that any corners were cut going into Cosford. It wasn't his style. Also, after the infamous White Waltham fly-by a year or two earlier there was a little more caution among the remaining trainers on the fleet.
In addition wasn't this the one that lost an engine on the way and ended up landing on three? Bill must have felt he had something in hand to have committed to that.
Would be interesting to know what has changed.
I remember him around that time frequently reminding us all of his earnest desire to collect his substantial and imminent pension! I doubt that any corners were cut going into Cosford. It wasn't his style. Also, after the infamous White Waltham fly-by a year or two earlier there was a little more caution among the remaining trainers on the fleet.
In addition wasn't this the one that lost an engine on the way and ended up landing on three? Bill must have felt he had something in hand to have committed to that.
Would be interesting to know what has changed.
