Aircrew Training in Rhodesia

[Treble one]

Warmtoast

Many thanks for the info regarding the Tiger Moth/Chipmunk handover.


I seem to remember my chum saying that the Harvard's had longer propeller blades due to the altitude which meant they made even more of a noise as the tips went supersonic?

[Warmtoast]

111

There was some discussion about the Harvard props going supersonic here on PPRUNE: http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...exan-prop.html

[Treble one]

Many thanks Warmtoast. An interesting dicussion.

[Warmtoast]

Dora-9

Some of the RATG Chipmunks were never uncrated, and when sold were literally "zero-time" items...

When the Rhodesian Air Training Group closed in October 1953 flying clubs in South Africa and Australia realised that the many surplus RAF Chipmunks now on offer were an economic alternative to the purchase of new aircraft.
Eleven used ex RATG Chipmunks were imported into Australia via South Africa. They proved so popular that when the RAF released further aircraft in 1956, W.S. Shackleton Ltd were appointed to purchase Chipmunks on behalf of the Federation of Australian Aero Clubs. In total some 80 ex-RAF Chipmunks were exported to Australia.

[Dora-9]

Warmtoast - absolutely correct.

Here's VH-AJD, (C1-0446, ex WG357), the very first ex RAF Chipmunk to arrive in Australia. You can still see traces of the fuselage roundel, plus various RAF stencils. It's history is typical of the RATG Chipmunks:

14.8.51 Delivered Chester
15.8.51 Towed across airfield to 47 MU Hawarden, crated
9.10.51 To Birkinhead Docks
13.10.51 Departs on SS Clan McTaggart
2.11.51 Arrives Durban
18.12.51 394 MU Heany
19.6.53 4 FTS Heany
29.10.53 Sold
21.1.54 Registered to the RAC of NSW as VH-AJD
Subsequently it became VH-RSP, -ESP and then -RSP again. The aircraft remains flying (still with a narrow chord rudder and without the strakes), now based at Caloundra Qld.

The point is the Federation of Australian Aero Clubs got an absolute bargain with this one - it was never test flown at Chester, and had never been uncrated before it arrived at Bankstown for the RACNSW, i.e. it had NEVER flown! All this for about a third of the quoted price from DHA for a new Chipmunk Mk.21! Most of the initial ex-RATG Chipmunks to arrive here had around 500 hours, although there were a few others in the "never been uncrated" category.

[Dora-9]

Warmtoast - at the risk of being pedantic (who, me?), may add some details please?

Eleven used ex RATG Chipmunks were imported into Australia via South Africa.

Initially yes, later no. The original eleven were:

C1-0373 WG314, became VH-WRW
C1-0418 WG328, became VH-RBW
C1-0446 WG357, became VH-AJD, -RSP, -ESP, -RSP
C1-0466 WG393, became VH-CBM, -RSV, -WAU, -AFG, -ZIT
C1-0467 WG394, became VH-RNF
C1-0472 WG398, became VH-RVY
C1-0478 WG404, became VH-REW
C1-0485 WG414, became VH-RVX
C1-0498 WG424, became VH-RVZ, -RTW
C1-0499 WG425, became VH-FTA
C1-0500 WG426, became VH-BNU, -RSR

No less than six of these were in the "never been uncrated" category; the Chipmunks that were to become VH-RVX, -RVY, -RVZ, -BNU, -FTA & -AJD. I still think that the Federation must have collectively wet themselves when they realized what they'd got!

But there two more that were to arrive here indirectly from the RATG:

C1-0438 WG351, initially to Noumea as F-AOAL, then VH-SJD (the very short-lived prototype SA29 "Spraymaster").
C1-0439 WG352, to South Africa as ZS-DIN, then VH-RVJ

Four of these still survive; VH-RSP, -RVY and -RTW still fly in this country, while VH-ZIT was exported to the US.

In total some 80 ex-RAF Chipmunks were exported to Australia.

I think you might have to qualify that number as "exported to Australian aero clubs or flying schools"; there have been an additional twenty-seven Chipmunks imported for/by individuals - a significant proportion of these following the 1972, 1994 and 1997 disposals.

Cheers!

[Warmtoast]

Dora-9

Thanks for the details. However my only interest is that I was there in Rhodesia when the RATG closed down in 1953 and read with interest and squirreled away anything about the Group that I read, not because I was keeping detailed tabs on what went where as the Group folded, but because it was something I was interested in and reminded me of happy days in my first overseas posting, with the result that I kept any relevant cuttings as they appeared in the press.

[Dora-9]

Warmtoast: Thanks, as you probably gathered my main interest is the Chipmunk in Australia!

An RATG question, please - where is/was Heany? I've searched around Bulawayo with Google Earth and can only locate the current Bulawayo Airport. Was this Heany?

[Fareastdriver]

Heany is 081 degrees 20 kilometres from Bulawayo city centre. The hangers and buildings are in a semicular shape but the runways are overgrown.
After 4 FTS left it was taken over by the Rhodesian Army and named Llewellan Barracks. It was the depot of the Royal Rhodesia Regiment which had the national service battalions.
I lived in a brand new married quarter immediately North East of Heany as a kid and later did my Rhodesian National Serive (four months training, two years weekend camps) at Llewellan Barracks.
The buildings on the road just before you reach Heany were the barracks and married quarters for the 2nd Batt. Rhodesian African Rifles. They were all from the Matebele tribe. The 1st Batt. was near Salisbury (Harare) who were Shona.
The two battalions were never allowed within twenty miles of each other.

[mustpost]

My father learned in Rhodesia, did his tour in the Middle East, then returned to instruct. I've already made contact with someone here who flew with him at Moffat; in the course of my search I found this site which may be of interest...

Our Rhodesian Heritage - The Story of Royal Air Force Station Moffat
(just cut and paste this into search engine)

[Dora-9]

Fareastdriver:

Found it! Thanks.

You weren't kidding about the runway(s) being overgrown - maybe, like Thornhill, initially an overall field with a runway added later? The configuration is remarkably similar between the two.

[Warmtoast]

Fareastdriver

After 6 FTS left

4 FTS was at Heany, whilst 5 FTS was located at Thornhill near Gwelo (Gweru) in the centre of the colony.

Thornhill's runway in 1951 - 53 was of rolled earth (Laterite).

Thornhill in 1952


and from Google Earth

[dasa]

Greetings all,

In January 2013 I helped some Air Britain members with locating GPS co-ordinates for RATG bases.

I was helped by having aerial images of all but one of the bases - Norton

Does anyone have an aerial photograph of RATG Norton please?

I am trying to find its exact GPS co-ordinates.

Do any of the RATG related hangars or buildings at Norton survive?

Below are GPS details for the bases I have found.

Belvedere, Salisbury -17°50'07.91" +31°01'01.88" Red roof building here
Cranborne, Salisbury -17°51'5.15" +31° 4'19.92" Old Hangars still there
Guinea Fowl, Gwelo -19° 31' 38.53", +29° 56' 8.15" Old building still there
Heany, Bulawayo -20° 7' 45.24", +28° 46' 9.70" Old building still there
Induna, Bulawayo -20° 06' 18.29", +28° 41' 51.83" Old building red roof still there
Kumalo, Bulawayo -20° 8' 24.63", +28° 36' 11.48" Old building still there
Moffat, Gwelo -19° 28' 42.00", +29° 47' 22.19" North East hangar was there
Mount Hampden, Salisbury -17°44'41.57" +30°55'27.73" Old building still there

Norton Salisbury, Exact location unknown.

Thornhill, Gwelo -19°26'48.95" +29°51'15.39" Old building still there

The GPS co-ordinates listed above can be copied and pasted into either Google Maps or Google Earth.

Best wishes for the festive season to you all.

Jaws

John Austin-Williams
[phone]
[email protected]

[Warmtoast]

I've got a descriptive note about the RATG and in it Norton is described as " Norton, the flying instructors’ school (later renamed Central Flying School), thirty miles west of Salisbury. It breathed an atmosphere of its own, rather rarefied and academic, as would be expected of the “University of the Training Group,” where the cream of the pilots were instructing".

It also mentioned that it "was renamed No. 33 Flying Instructor School", but this was during WW2.

A bit of Googling threw up this reference:
http://rhodesianheritage.********.co.uk/search?q=Norton

(substitute b-l-o-g-s-p-o-t without the hyphens for the asterisks)

this link contains a variety of photographs including a 1944 overhead shot that shows its layout in relation to the adjacent roads and railway line.

[jblaverick]

RATG Murders - Kumalo and Oxford pics wanted!

Dear all,

I am writing about the murder of two trainee pilots who got lost from RAF Kumalo in 1943. Having landed on one of the salt pans over the border in Botswana, they met a hunting party of Bushmen who initially gave them food and shelter. However, something went terribly wrong and they were brutally murdered.

I have lots of original documentation, including the court documents, files from the UK national archives, and lots of info and some photos from one of the families involved.

However, I have not been able to find many pics of RATG Oxfords and none at all of Kumalo. If anybody can help, I would be very grateful.

Thanks

Jonathan Laverick

[l.garey]

Jonathan: see my posts starting at no. 21 in this thread about Norton and, among other things its Oxfords, of which I published a photo in post 25.

Laurence

[jblaverick]

Thanks

Thanks Laurence - I'm afraid that I was including the photo you had posted in my meager collection of 3 RATG Oxfords! It is really appreciated when people take the time to put up memories and pics like that - so thank you!

[l.garey]

OK Jonathan. I'm afraid that this is the only one I have!
I guess you saw the list of Oxford serials in my posts too, but no pictures available! Good hunting. Let me know if you find any more.

Laurence

[RAFDAUGHTER]

Flying Instructor

My father David R Keiller was posted to Salsibury as a flying instructor in 1941. My mother joined him from the UK in 1941 He was in North Africa beforehand and moved to Bulawayo thence to Durban before returning to the UK in 1944.
My sister was born in Salsibury in 1941 and I Bulawayo 1944, I have several photographs of him and the planes he flew, both from Abu Simnel (where he learned to fly in the 1930's )and Africa. Sadly he died in 1952 from lung cancer after my mother divorced him on returning to the UK
I would love to hear whether anyone knew him or of him as I have very little knowledge about him

[Jerico]

Hi

My father died in May and his logbooks have been passed to me, along with his diaries of the period.

To add to your notes my father was at 28 E.F.T.S Mt Hampden flying Cornells from Sept 1944 - Jan 45, on Course 39c
They mainly seem to have Canadian Reg:
15138,15238,15088,15218,15177,15221,15368,15130,15111,15234, 15180; 15182; 15138; 15171; 15190; 15327; 15118 & 15368. He did his first solo on type on 15368 on 6th Nov 44.

RAF registrations shown in his logbook are

FV567, FV522, FV987; FV564 & FV578

He then went onto 20 SFTS at Cranborne to fly Harvards from Feb 45 - Apr 45 on 51 Course