A26 Upkeep Crash
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A26 Upkeep Crash
Watching Dambusters fly again I was astonished to see in historical footage what I am pretty sure is an A26 flying across an airfield at about 400mph and 20", dropping a spherical bouncing bomb
The bomb bounced all right, back into the empennage and smashed the whole thing off.
The AC then nosed into the ground in a ball of flames.
What were they thinking?
(apart from "oh sh!t!")
The bomb bounced all right, back into the empennage and smashed the whole thing off.
The AC then nosed into the ground in a ball of flames.
What were they thinking?
(apart from "oh sh!t!")
Last edited by gileraguy; 27th Apr 2013 at 08:53.
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A26 crash
Hi Gileraguy
What you saw was the crash of 43-22644, which occured on the 28th April 1945, off the coast in Florida, USA.
The "Highball" (not Upkeep) equipment, having been fitted and test flown from Vickers in an A26 at Weybridge UK, was then sent to the US and re-installed in '644. Whilst operating from Eglin field, and being flown by Lt Anderson, the aircraft crashed into the sea at an off-shore bombing range, killing Anderson and three others. That somewhat "put off" any interest by the Americans in the use of "Highball"...
regards
IFPSman
What you saw was the crash of 43-22644, which occured on the 28th April 1945, off the coast in Florida, USA.
The "Highball" (not Upkeep) equipment, having been fitted and test flown from Vickers in an A26 at Weybridge UK, was then sent to the US and re-installed in '644. Whilst operating from Eglin field, and being flown by Lt Anderson, the aircraft crashed into the sea at an off-shore bombing range, killing Anderson and three others. That somewhat "put off" any interest by the Americans in the use of "Highball"...
regards
IFPSman
Some years ago I taped that sequence from the television onto a VCR (remember those?).
Slowed the tape down to get an accurate time of fall, and did some sums.
( S=ut+1/2 f t squared. Remember that ?)
The aircraft was actually eight feet off the water.
Slowed the tape down to get an accurate time of fall, and did some sums.
( S=ut+1/2 f t squared. Remember that ?)
The aircraft was actually eight feet off the water.
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The recent TV episode re-creating the Wallis dam-buster project (using Buffalo Airways' DC-4/C-54 drop ship) included vintage footage of test drops both before and after the actual raid. One clip was of the A-26 accident - over water. The spinning Wallis-type bomb was dropped at very low altitude; it bounced, as it was designed to do; and it rebounded right into the tail of the A-26. 
One must question the ballistics engineering expertise that went into this particular test. The hazard from the bomb's rebound was very well known, and obvious from footage of previous tests. The lower the drop altitude, the closer the bomb bounces behind the aircraft. If the pilot had seen ANY of the earlier film, he must have had a death wish, to fly this particular mission.
One must question the ballistics engineering expertise that went into this particular test. The hazard from the bomb's rebound was very well known, and obvious from footage of previous tests. The lower the drop altitude, the closer the bomb bounces behind the aircraft. If the pilot had seen ANY of the earlier film, he must have had a death wish, to fly this particular mission.
From the original post (haven't seen this clip but have seen two dropped from a Mossie) I would say 20" is a bit low to drop the weapon from; the Mossie was about 100ft and Upkeep was I believe, dropped from 80ft.
Low-Level bombing
Eight feet Ten feet, 80 ft, 100 ft ? All a bit higher than 20" then. Someone chicken ?
Practice LLB was always considered tremendous sport with 25lb S&F practice bombs. 480 kts 80 ft level, walk the sight up to the target and pickle – It was either a "target" or a rather large "over." Don't ask about the AAA or the tall mast when it's for real.
For real, the idea is, the real bomb should get caught in the solid vertical extent of the target so it stops and goes off only after you've got clear - you might be allowed a delay fuse, but no retards for us then.
One day someone decided this should be tried on the splash target with full size iron bombs.
Our hero duly punched off four 1000lb inerts using the Explosive Release Units.
Goofers on the rounddown watched them drop, hit the water and bounce back up, way higher than the delivery aircraft, having slowed just enough to just miss his tailend.
What a lucky boy. Guess the delivery hadn't been fully thought through.
Only slightly off thread. LFH
Eight feet Ten feet, 80 ft, 100 ft ? All a bit higher than 20" then. Someone chicken ?
Practice LLB was always considered tremendous sport with 25lb S&F practice bombs. 480 kts 80 ft level, walk the sight up to the target and pickle – It was either a "target" or a rather large "over." Don't ask about the AAA or the tall mast when it's for real.
For real, the idea is, the real bomb should get caught in the solid vertical extent of the target so it stops and goes off only after you've got clear - you might be allowed a delay fuse, but no retards for us then.
One day someone decided this should be tried on the splash target with full size iron bombs.
Our hero duly punched off four 1000lb inerts using the Explosive Release Units.
Goofers on the rounddown watched them drop, hit the water and bounce back up, way higher than the delivery aircraft, having slowed just enough to just miss his tailend.
What a lucky boy. Guess the delivery hadn't been fully thought through.
Only slightly off thread. LFH
Last edited by Lordflasheart; 28th Apr 2013 at 19:10.
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Notice the downward flex of the wings during the bunt into the water!
I presume over land, a greater drop height would be used; the film I saw of the two dropping from the Mossie showed them merrily bouncing along but not reaching the height of the drop aircraft.
With all due respect, the A26 looks a bit low (maybe 20 or 30 feet) compared to films of Upkeep and Highball drops which I've seen. I wonder how the yanks judged the actual height of the aircraft; we all know how 617 did it of course but would they have employed anything as simple?
With all due respect, the A26 looks a bit low (maybe 20 or 30 feet) compared to films of Upkeep and Highball drops which I've seen. I wonder how the yanks judged the actual height of the aircraft; we all know how 617 did it of course but would they have employed anything as simple?
Last edited by chevvron; 28th Apr 2013 at 20:36.
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As oxenos says - 8ft. Hit the pause button at the right spot and it becomes obvious. The guy was in danger of his props hitting the water never mind the weapon.
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There is video of the 26 making an earlier drop where the bomb climbs/bounces what seemed like near 100 feet above the aircraft. Also had film of the event from the underside of the aircraft looking aft. Can't find a source on the net however. Was shown in a doco on telly a few weeks ago.
