WW II B17 Survival Story
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B17 OVER TUNIS, 1943
Apologies if this link has been posted before, but IMO it is worth another post as it is an absolutely incredible story! 
[URL="http://garfieldsteamhouse.org/History/WWII/WWII-B17-Survival-Story.php
[URL="http://garfieldsteamhouse.org/History/WWII/WWII-B17-Survival-Story.php
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Mighty Gem, this has come up before on many boards (I don't know about here, but you might check the historic section).
Everything in the story is true, except for the article writer blindly assuming that the only place bombers were flying to/from was Britain, and so deciding that the information saying the B-17 was flying from Biskra, Algeria to bomb Tunisia must be in error, none of the rest of the world is important enough for heavy bombers to be sent to, you see.
See the account on pages 10-12 (mainly page 12, pages 10-11 establish where they were and what their missions were) here: B-17 Flying Fortress Units of the MTO - William Hess - Google Books
What the article you linked doesn't say, is that before crashing into All-American, that FW-190 had crashed into the B-17 flown by Major Coulter, the formation leader. It sheared off a wing of the B-17, sending in into a spin. Only 3 crew members managed to bale out before the aircraft impacted the desert.
The FW-190 then crashed into All-American.
Everything in the story is true, except for the article writer blindly assuming that the only place bombers were flying to/from was Britain, and so deciding that the information saying the B-17 was flying from Biskra, Algeria to bomb Tunisia must be in error, none of the rest of the world is important enough for heavy bombers to be sent to, you see.
See the account on pages 10-12 (mainly page 12, pages 10-11 establish where they were and what their missions were) here: B-17 Flying Fortress Units of the MTO - William Hess - Google Books
What the article you linked doesn't say, is that before crashing into All-American, that FW-190 had crashed into the B-17 flown by Major Coulter, the formation leader. It sheared off a wing of the B-17, sending in into a spin. Only 3 crew members managed to bale out before the aircraft impacted the desert.
The FW-190 then crashed into All-American.
Last edited by GreenKnight121; 12th Dec 2012 at 06:14.
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The following comes from an interview with Ralph Burbridge, the bombardier.
Now
Then
The aircraft was repaired and was returned to service with the 353d Bomb Squadron, 301st Bomb Group and survived the war; eventually being sent to salvage in March 1945.
Some obvious errors.
They were hit by a 109, not a 190.
No indication is given that the fighter had collided with another B-17 prior to hitting "All American".
The collision took place after the bomb run, not before.
Research indicates only one B-17 was lost on the raid and that was credited to Ltn. Julius Meimberg.
The German pilot involved in the collision was Feldwebel Erich Paczia, of 6/JG-53, flying Bf 109G-4 (Trop) Werk # 16093 "Yellow 1". He is interred in the War Cemetery Bordj-Cedria/Tunesia, Grave site: Hof NAS Ossario 14 Tafel 23.
The tail gunner didn't remain in his turret. The book "Claims To Fame: The B-17 Flying Fortress" by Steve Birdsall & Roger Freeman, quoting the pilot
Full article at http://www.waterland b l o g.com/2012/09/21/local-b-17-bombardier-recalls-wing-and-a-prayer-mission-on-the-all-american
It's a shame so much blatant misinformation is out there, it's just a wonderful story in no need of embellishment.
Now
Then
In a recent interview, Burbridge recounted that mission – and corrected a dramatic but fictional account, posted online as fact, about the crippled All American’s return to its base.
Assigned to the 97th Bombardment Group, 414th Squadron, U.S. Eighth Air Force, the All American had been named by pilot Kendrick (Kenny) Bragg, who played football for Duke University before the war.
Flying from a base near Biskra, an oasis city in the Sahara Desert in north-central Algeria, the 414th’s missions in early 1943 targeted Mediterranean seaports at Bizerte and Tunis, Tunisia.
That Feb. 1, German Messerschmitts again attempted to fight off approaching American bombers, including the All-American. Closer to the target, these B-17s flew through “very frightening” anti-aircraft fire.
MORE FIGHTER ATTACKS
After dropping their payload and turning back, enemy fighters renewed their pursuit of the American planes before ending the chase as they neared maximum range.
But “long after we had left the target and having sustained more fighter attacks, we saw two more [Messerschmitts] climbing about two miles to our right,” Burbridge recalls.
“They came in to attack us, one of them directly at the nose of the lead ship and one at our plane. I covered one coming at us with the [.30-caliber] front nose gun and Harry (Nuessle, the navigator) covered the other plane with the [.50-caliber] gun on the right side of the nose.”
Noting that he and Nuessle “were gunners when not doing our other duties,” Burbridge says “between our own fire and fire from the lead ship, we managed to hit the Jerry going after the lead ship. He was last seen going down smoking off in the distance.”
The other fighter kept coming toward them and “his wings looked as though they were afire from his flaming guns.” When the German pilot was about 300 yards away he began a roll to pull down and away from the All American after his attack.
“But,” Burbridge continues, “about halfway through his roll either my fire or fire from the lead ship must have killed the pilot or disabled the plane. He never completed his intended roll and rapid pass under our ship.”
“For one horrible instant he was right there – inches in front and above us. He passed over us with a distinctly audible swoosh,” over the roar of the B-17’s Wright Cyclone engines, “followed by a tremendous jar and a ‘whoomp.’”
Bragg quickly informed the crew that there was a hole in the rear and the side of our ship. That Jerry plane had lopped off half of our tail section completely off. The other half and the rudder looked like they would shake loose at any moment.
“Miraculously,” says Burbridge, “none of the crew was hurt, but somewhere in the shuffle the lead ship was lost.” The 10 men aboard his plane put their parachutes on and got ready to jump in case the rest of the tail started to break off.
When other crews saw that it was still airborne, “they put the crippled All American in formation and stayed with us until we were out of enemy territory,” while American fighters provided protection overhead.
Once beyond enemy fighter range, the rest of the planes returned to base ahead of them. Now flying alone, “it seemed like the trip back took 10 years but the base wasn’t really that far. Somehow Kenny nursed the damaged plane and got us home later than everyone else.”
Although the All American landed safely, its tail wheel wouldn’t go down and they skidded the last 100 yards. “I remember our ground crew had given us up so they were really glad to see us,” he says. “Our crew chief, the head mechanic, had tears in his eyes.”
After the plane had stopped, the door was opened and the crew safely climbed out. An ambulance had been waved off as they landed because it wasn’t needed.
Several pictures were taken of the damaged tail section, which finally fell off when ground crew personnel climbed aboard to inspect it.
Lieutenant Charles “Cliff” Cutforth, a crew member aboard the B-17 Flying Flint Gun on that mission, had a camera and took a photo of the crippled All American as it flew above the desolate North African desert.
Burbridge calls this fortunate – otherwise “we’d never have made anyone believe the thing would fly with only half the horizontal stabilizer and a very wobbly rudder.” That photo became one of the most famous pictures of World War II.
According to Burbridge, Boeing engineers later said “because we got rammed in the air it was impossible to fly [the All American] but we did. Ken was a good pilot and our co-pilot – Godfrey Murphy – was too. Co-pilots don’t get very much attention but he was a very good pilot.
“Shortly after this, Eddie Cantor, the singer, dedicated the song ‘Comin’ in on a Wing and a Prayer’ to Kenny and our crew.” The song became a number one hit in 1943.
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
Burbridge notes that one online post presents an inaccurate retelling of this mission and the flight of the All American back to its base in North Africa – not back to England, as claimed – after being hit by the German fighter; a misconception he corrected in this interview.
That account says “we flew down to Africa, bombed the Germans, and then flew back to England.” But, he continues, such a mission was beyond the range of B-17s. “I want to make it clear. Flying from England to Africa is a long trip.”
In addition, it suggests that the All American was struck by the fighter while approaching the target, yet still managed to drop its bombs before limping all the way back, eventually flying just above the water of the English Channel.
But even if B-17s had had the range to fly a mission of this distance and return, the extreme structural damage to the tail section of the All-American would have forced it down long before reaching England.
And flying back over the English Channel would have required the bomber to take a very long, gas-consuming route beyond the coast of Portugal – or to go over German-occupied France at low altitude, where being shot down would have been a virtual certainty.
Assigned to the 97th Bombardment Group, 414th Squadron, U.S. Eighth Air Force, the All American had been named by pilot Kendrick (Kenny) Bragg, who played football for Duke University before the war.
Flying from a base near Biskra, an oasis city in the Sahara Desert in north-central Algeria, the 414th’s missions in early 1943 targeted Mediterranean seaports at Bizerte and Tunis, Tunisia.
That Feb. 1, German Messerschmitts again attempted to fight off approaching American bombers, including the All-American. Closer to the target, these B-17s flew through “very frightening” anti-aircraft fire.
MORE FIGHTER ATTACKS
After dropping their payload and turning back, enemy fighters renewed their pursuit of the American planes before ending the chase as they neared maximum range.
But “long after we had left the target and having sustained more fighter attacks, we saw two more [Messerschmitts] climbing about two miles to our right,” Burbridge recalls.
“They came in to attack us, one of them directly at the nose of the lead ship and one at our plane. I covered one coming at us with the [.30-caliber] front nose gun and Harry (Nuessle, the navigator) covered the other plane with the [.50-caliber] gun on the right side of the nose.”
Noting that he and Nuessle “were gunners when not doing our other duties,” Burbridge says “between our own fire and fire from the lead ship, we managed to hit the Jerry going after the lead ship. He was last seen going down smoking off in the distance.”
The other fighter kept coming toward them and “his wings looked as though they were afire from his flaming guns.” When the German pilot was about 300 yards away he began a roll to pull down and away from the All American after his attack.
“But,” Burbridge continues, “about halfway through his roll either my fire or fire from the lead ship must have killed the pilot or disabled the plane. He never completed his intended roll and rapid pass under our ship.”
“For one horrible instant he was right there – inches in front and above us. He passed over us with a distinctly audible swoosh,” over the roar of the B-17’s Wright Cyclone engines, “followed by a tremendous jar and a ‘whoomp.’”
Bragg quickly informed the crew that there was a hole in the rear and the side of our ship. That Jerry plane had lopped off half of our tail section completely off. The other half and the rudder looked like they would shake loose at any moment.
“Miraculously,” says Burbridge, “none of the crew was hurt, but somewhere in the shuffle the lead ship was lost.” The 10 men aboard his plane put their parachutes on and got ready to jump in case the rest of the tail started to break off.
When other crews saw that it was still airborne, “they put the crippled All American in formation and stayed with us until we were out of enemy territory,” while American fighters provided protection overhead.
Once beyond enemy fighter range, the rest of the planes returned to base ahead of them. Now flying alone, “it seemed like the trip back took 10 years but the base wasn’t really that far. Somehow Kenny nursed the damaged plane and got us home later than everyone else.”
Although the All American landed safely, its tail wheel wouldn’t go down and they skidded the last 100 yards. “I remember our ground crew had given us up so they were really glad to see us,” he says. “Our crew chief, the head mechanic, had tears in his eyes.”
After the plane had stopped, the door was opened and the crew safely climbed out. An ambulance had been waved off as they landed because it wasn’t needed.
Several pictures were taken of the damaged tail section, which finally fell off when ground crew personnel climbed aboard to inspect it.
Lieutenant Charles “Cliff” Cutforth, a crew member aboard the B-17 Flying Flint Gun on that mission, had a camera and took a photo of the crippled All American as it flew above the desolate North African desert.
Burbridge calls this fortunate – otherwise “we’d never have made anyone believe the thing would fly with only half the horizontal stabilizer and a very wobbly rudder.” That photo became one of the most famous pictures of World War II.
According to Burbridge, Boeing engineers later said “because we got rammed in the air it was impossible to fly [the All American] but we did. Ken was a good pilot and our co-pilot – Godfrey Murphy – was too. Co-pilots don’t get very much attention but he was a very good pilot.
“Shortly after this, Eddie Cantor, the singer, dedicated the song ‘Comin’ in on a Wing and a Prayer’ to Kenny and our crew.” The song became a number one hit in 1943.
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
Burbridge notes that one online post presents an inaccurate retelling of this mission and the flight of the All American back to its base in North Africa – not back to England, as claimed – after being hit by the German fighter; a misconception he corrected in this interview.
That account says “we flew down to Africa, bombed the Germans, and then flew back to England.” But, he continues, such a mission was beyond the range of B-17s. “I want to make it clear. Flying from England to Africa is a long trip.”
In addition, it suggests that the All American was struck by the fighter while approaching the target, yet still managed to drop its bombs before limping all the way back, eventually flying just above the water of the English Channel.
But even if B-17s had had the range to fly a mission of this distance and return, the extreme structural damage to the tail section of the All-American would have forced it down long before reaching England.
And flying back over the English Channel would have required the bomber to take a very long, gas-consuming route beyond the coast of Portugal – or to go over German-occupied France at low altitude, where being shot down would have been a virtual certainty.
Some obvious errors.
They were hit by a 109, not a 190.
No indication is given that the fighter had collided with another B-17 prior to hitting "All American".
The collision took place after the bomb run, not before.
Research indicates only one B-17 was lost on the raid and that was credited to Ltn. Julius Meimberg.
The German pilot involved in the collision was Feldwebel Erich Paczia, of 6/JG-53, flying Bf 109G-4 (Trop) Werk # 16093 "Yellow 1". He is interred in the War Cemetery Bordj-Cedria/Tunesia, Grave site: Hof NAS Ossario 14 Tafel 23.
The tail gunner didn't remain in his turret. The book "Claims To Fame: The B-17 Flying Fortress" by Steve Birdsall & Roger Freeman, quoting the pilot
Kendrick Bragg remembered that, "As I opened the door of the radio compartment and looked back into the fuselage I was stunned. A torn mass of metal greeted my eyes. Wires were dangling and sheets of metal were flapping as the air rushed through the torn wreckage. Three-fourths of the plane had been cut completely through by the enemy fighter and a large piece of the wing of the Me109 was still lodged in the tail of our plane . . . It left our tail section hanging on by a few slender spars and a narrow strip of metallic skin.
Crawling along that narrow strip was Sgt Sam Sarpolus, the tail gunner, bringing with him four gun brushes, his parachute, and Bragg's jacket. He'd left four gas masks, remembering later that "I looked at them a minute and thought the hell with them".
Crawling along that narrow strip was Sgt Sam Sarpolus, the tail gunner, bringing with him four gun brushes, his parachute, and Bragg's jacket. He'd left four gas masks, remembering later that "I looked at them a minute and thought the hell with them".
It's a shame so much blatant misinformation is out there, it's just a wonderful story in no need of embellishment.
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WW II B17 Survival Story
I would be very surprised if this hasn't been posted before but it has only just landed on my desk. It makes interesting reading and as soon as I can figure how to get the supporting photos, I'll post them.
B-17 in 1943
A mid-air collision on February 1, 1943, between a B-17 and a German fighter over the Tunis dock area, became the subject of one of the most famous photographs of World War II. An enemy fighter attacking a 97th Bomb Group formation went out of control, probably with a wounded pilot then continued its crashing descent into the rear of the fuselage of a Fortress named "All American", piloted by Lt. Kendrick R. Bragg, of the 414th Bomb Squadron. When it struck, the fighter broke apart, but left some pieces in the B-17. The left horizontal stabilizer of the Fortress and left elevator were completely torn away. The two right engines were out and one on the left had a serious oil pump leak. The vertical fin and the rudder had been damaged, the fuselage had been cut almost completely through connected only at two small parts of the frame and the radios, electrical and oxygen systems were damaged. There was also a hole in the top that was over 16 feet long and 4 feet wide at its widest and the split in the fuselage went all the way to the top gunners turret.
Although the tail actually bounced and swayed in the wind and twisted when the plane turned and all the control cables were severed, except one single elevator cable still worked, and the aircraft still flew - miraculously! The tail gunner was trapped because there was no floor connecting the tail to the rest of the plane. The waist and tail gunners used parts of the German fighter and their own parachute harnesses in an attempt to keep the tail from ripping off and the two sides of the fuselage from splitting apart. While the crew was trying to keep the bomber from coming apart, the pilot continued on his bomb run and released his bombs over the target.
When the bomb bay doors were opened, the wind turbulence was so great that it blew one of the waist gunners into the broken tail section. It took several minutes and four crew members to pass him ropes from parachutes and haul him back into the forward part of the plane. When they tried to do the same for the tail gunner, the tail began flapping so hard that it began to break off. The weight of the gunner was adding some stability to the tail section, so he went back to his position.
The turn back toward England had to be very slow to keep the tail from twisting off. They actually covered almost 70 miles to make the turn home. The bomber was so badly damaged that it was losing altitude and speed and was soon alone in the sky. For a brief time, two more Me-109 German fighters attacked the All American. Despite the extensive damage, all of the machine gunners were able to respond to these attacks and soon drove off the fighters. The two waist gunners stood up with their heads sticking out through the hole in the top of the fuselage to aim and fire their machine guns. The tail gunner had to shoot in short bursts because the recoil was actually causing the plane to turn.
Allied P-51 fighters intercepted the All American as it crossed over the Channel and took one of the pictures shown. They also radioed to the base describing that the empennage was waving like a fish tail and that the plane would not make it and to send out boats to rescue the crew when they bailed out. The fighters stayed with the Fortress taking hand signals from Lt. Bragg and relaying them to the base. Lt. Bragg signaled that 5 parachutes and the spare had been "used" so five of the crew could not bail out. He made the decision that if they could not bail out safely, then he would stay with the plane and land it.
Two and a half hours after being hit, the aircraft made its final turn to line up with the runway while it was still over 40 miles away. It descended into an emergency landing and a normal roll-out on its landing gear.
When the ambulance pulled alongside, it was waved off because not a single member of the crew had been injured. No one could believe that the aircraft could still fly in such a condition. The Fortress sat placidly until the crew all exited through the door in the fuselage and the tail gunner had climbed down a ladder, at which time the entire rear section of the aircraft collapsed onto the ground. The rugged old bird had done its job.
B-17 in 1943
A mid-air collision on February 1, 1943, between a B-17 and a German fighter over the Tunis dock area, became the subject of one of the most famous photographs of World War II. An enemy fighter attacking a 97th Bomb Group formation went out of control, probably with a wounded pilot then continued its crashing descent into the rear of the fuselage of a Fortress named "All American", piloted by Lt. Kendrick R. Bragg, of the 414th Bomb Squadron. When it struck, the fighter broke apart, but left some pieces in the B-17. The left horizontal stabilizer of the Fortress and left elevator were completely torn away. The two right engines were out and one on the left had a serious oil pump leak. The vertical fin and the rudder had been damaged, the fuselage had been cut almost completely through connected only at two small parts of the frame and the radios, electrical and oxygen systems were damaged. There was also a hole in the top that was over 16 feet long and 4 feet wide at its widest and the split in the fuselage went all the way to the top gunners turret.
Although the tail actually bounced and swayed in the wind and twisted when the plane turned and all the control cables were severed, except one single elevator cable still worked, and the aircraft still flew - miraculously! The tail gunner was trapped because there was no floor connecting the tail to the rest of the plane. The waist and tail gunners used parts of the German fighter and their own parachute harnesses in an attempt to keep the tail from ripping off and the two sides of the fuselage from splitting apart. While the crew was trying to keep the bomber from coming apart, the pilot continued on his bomb run and released his bombs over the target.
When the bomb bay doors were opened, the wind turbulence was so great that it blew one of the waist gunners into the broken tail section. It took several minutes and four crew members to pass him ropes from parachutes and haul him back into the forward part of the plane. When they tried to do the same for the tail gunner, the tail began flapping so hard that it began to break off. The weight of the gunner was adding some stability to the tail section, so he went back to his position.
The turn back toward England had to be very slow to keep the tail from twisting off. They actually covered almost 70 miles to make the turn home. The bomber was so badly damaged that it was losing altitude and speed and was soon alone in the sky. For a brief time, two more Me-109 German fighters attacked the All American. Despite the extensive damage, all of the machine gunners were able to respond to these attacks and soon drove off the fighters. The two waist gunners stood up with their heads sticking out through the hole in the top of the fuselage to aim and fire their machine guns. The tail gunner had to shoot in short bursts because the recoil was actually causing the plane to turn.
Allied P-51 fighters intercepted the All American as it crossed over the Channel and took one of the pictures shown. They also radioed to the base describing that the empennage was waving like a fish tail and that the plane would not make it and to send out boats to rescue the crew when they bailed out. The fighters stayed with the Fortress taking hand signals from Lt. Bragg and relaying them to the base. Lt. Bragg signaled that 5 parachutes and the spare had been "used" so five of the crew could not bail out. He made the decision that if they could not bail out safely, then he would stay with the plane and land it.
Two and a half hours after being hit, the aircraft made its final turn to line up with the runway while it was still over 40 miles away. It descended into an emergency landing and a normal roll-out on its landing gear.
When the ambulance pulled alongside, it was waved off because not a single member of the crew had been injured. No one could believe that the aircraft could still fly in such a condition. The Fortress sat placidly until the crew all exited through the door in the fuselage and the tail gunner had climbed down a ladder, at which time the entire rear section of the aircraft collapsed onto the ground. The rugged old bird had done its job.
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Apparently it was based in Algeria not England - discussed here:
Doubt issued on authenticity WW2 Story - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
Picture here:
File:B-17-battle-casualty1.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Doubt issued on authenticity WW2 Story - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums
Picture here:
File:B-17-battle-casualty1.gif - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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A lot of duff gen. See my post at http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...is-1943-a.html
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I don't think these have been shown before, could be wrong but Brian Abraham's post is relevant.
Last edited by GANNET FAN; 11th Jan 2013 at 08:32.
Sorry when it said it was intercepted as it crossed over the channel, I assumed it was referring to the English Channel. The photo's clearly show it in desert terrain (hope they got the ball turret gunner out before landing) so what channel were they referring to?
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Thems the photos of the aircraft GANNET. 
chevvron, the channel the bogus story is referring to is the English. The stories circulating on the net and via email are full of erroneous information. You need to be a Sherlock Homes to ferret out the facts. See the link in my previous post should you want the real story.
chevvron, the channel the bogus story is referring to is the English. The stories circulating on the net and via email are full of erroneous information. You need to be a Sherlock Homes to ferret out the facts. See the link in my previous post should you want the real story.
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“Oh, great,” you think “another FNG shows up and resurrects a seven year old thread with his first post. This guy must be trying to stir some sh*t”!
I swear I’m not. Well, not the stirring part, anyway. My introduction first. I’m researching the WWII military career of my grandmother’s cousin, Capt. J. Ollie Wikle, pilot of the B-17 Flaming Mayme (41-24477) which collided with a Bf-109 over Tunisia on 1 Feb. 1943. From my research it appears the Flaming Mayme was the lead aircraft on the same mission that the All American (the aircraft which is the subject of the initial post in this thread) was struck by a German fighter, sustaining massive damage but was yet able to return to base. The Flaming Mayme’s crew wasn’t as fortunate and seven of the ten crew members perished with three parachuting out and eventually becoming German POW’s. The purpose of this post is to see if anyone has any information that could help me in my research.
As the earlier posts in this old thread illustrate, there has been debate for years about the exact circumstances surrounding the All American collision. I’ve obtained the Missing Air Crew Report (MACR 3516) of the Flaming Mayme’s incident and the Flaming Mayme’s bombardier (Lt. Birk) completed a form when he was released from captivity stating the Mayme was rammed by a 109 “just aft of the radio compartment” causing the aircraft to break into two pieces. He sites as his source (he was unable to view the collision given the fact he was inside the craft) a member of “The 301st Bomb Gp on same raid” who was subsequently shot down.
The Flaming Mayme’s tailgunner, T.Sgt Knight, also completed a report wherein he described the aircraft as “rammed in mid-air by Me-109 which hit amid-ship and broke the plane into several parts”. Again, given his position it is likely this information was related to him by another airman while in a POW camp. It is documented in the report that all three crewmen were reunited at Camp Lucky Strike after being liberated and most likely discussed the incident at that time, comparing notes on what they recall and were told by other POW’s.
On this mission which Lt. Blair describes as to the “Tunis Docks” the 304th’s Squadron Commander, Maj. Robert “Bob” Coulter, decided to fly the lead aircraft, moving Capt. Wikle to co-pilot. The navigator of another aircraft, Lt. Theodore “Dutch” Van Kirk, was interviewed on video in the mid-2000’s as part of the Witness to War project and he recounts in one segment seeing Bob Coulter’s plane get struck by a German fighter “head-on”. You can watch Dutch’s interview at the following link. Look for the video titled “Dutch Van Kirk, a B17 Navigator, Describes a Few Memorable Missions He Flew Over North Africa” starting just after the one minute mark: www.witnesstowar.org/search_result/videos/20
(Sorry, but being the FNG the forum rules won’t allow me to post a hyperlink until I’ve made 10 posts so you’ll have to copy and paste that link if you wish to view the video).
As noted in a reply above, the bombardier of the All American, Ralph Burbridge, does not state the lead ship was struck nor that the fighter who collided with his aircraft first struck the lead plane. However, he also made no statement disclaiming it. Indeed, he is quoted as saying “somewhere in the shuffle the lead ship was lost”. And I think it’s likely in that “shuffle” as he described it that the Flaming Mayme was struck. Given the stress of the battle it is at least possible that bombardier Burbridge did not witness that part of it. But, let me be clear, I am in no way suggesting he lied or intentionally withheld facts. Since his interview Burbridge has passed away so I am unable to follow up for clarification on his prior statements.
After digesting the information above and combining it with what follows I have reached a tentative conclusion that the same German fighter likely struck the lead aircraft (Flaming Mayme) and continued on to strike the All American. Granted, my tentative conclusion (emphasis on “tentative”) has holes of it’s own. However, what seems to be undisputed is that two German fighters (variously described in reports as Bf-109’s or Fw-190’s) committed to a head-on attack on a formation of B-17’s returning from a raid over Tunisia. It is indisputable from the photographs that the All American collided with another aircraft. However, between the statements within the MACR and Dutch Van Kirk’s video it appears equally certain that the lead aircraft, the Flaming Mayme, collided with an aircraft at the same time on the same mission. Therefore we’re left with two possible scenarios: either each German fighter struck a B-17 or one fighter struck both aircraft.
Luftwaffe records indicate two Bf-109’s (and no Fw-190’s) were lost in that same area on 1 Feb. 1943. They were piloted by Julius Meimberg and Erich Paczia. From the same records Paczia was listed as KIA as a result of a collision with a B17 and Meimberg bailed out after his aircraft was shot down. Meimberg was credited with one kill for the day, likely the Flaming Mayme. Though possible, it’s unlikely Meimberg would have survived a head-on collision and be able to bail out of his aircraft to fly many more missions. Further, Meimberg wrote his memoirs before passing and didn’t describe surviving a head-on collision with a bomber. Surely that would have warranted at least a footnote. (Meimberg’s memoirs are written in German, have not been translated to English, and I do not speak German hence I cannot state this with certainty. However, numerous online articles review the memoirs and relate various tales of his service yet none recount his involvement in a mid-air collision).
Hence I’ve reached my tentative (there’s that word again) conclusion that Paczia first collided with the Flaming Mayme and continued into the All American. Nope, I haven’t proved anything and I doubt I ever will. However, if I keep picking a this event I do believe I will be able to shed more light on the story. I have yet to find the 12th Air Force records for this mission which would conclusively prove both the All American and Flaming Mayme were on the same mission. It’s possible the All American was bombing Bizerte at the same time another mission with the Flaming Mayme was bombing the ports in Tunis. Both destinations were targets at that time in the war. Indeed the Flaming Mayme had bombed Bizerte just a little earlier (that destination is recorded in the MACR). However, from the few mission reports I have found it appears the target each day was one or the other, never both prior to the incident date.
My hope is the above posters, especially from posts #6 and #8, are still around and can share any further information they have about this historical event. I’ve found the original interview quoted in post #8 and it’s verbatim accurate. And I’ve read the claim in post #6 matching my (tentative) conclusion on several web sites and forums but have never found it attributed to any source. If anyone has any information to share I would greatly appreciate your input.
In closing let me state I understand this is a forum for professional pilots and this sub-forum is focused on military aviators. I am neither. I would like to take this last opportunity to thank all the servicemen and women, active duty and retired, regardless of the flag you serve/served under, for your commitment to professionalism and your patriotism. God bless you all.
Jess Bowers
Georgia, USA
I swear I’m not. Well, not the stirring part, anyway. My introduction first. I’m researching the WWII military career of my grandmother’s cousin, Capt. J. Ollie Wikle, pilot of the B-17 Flaming Mayme (41-24477) which collided with a Bf-109 over Tunisia on 1 Feb. 1943. From my research it appears the Flaming Mayme was the lead aircraft on the same mission that the All American (the aircraft which is the subject of the initial post in this thread) was struck by a German fighter, sustaining massive damage but was yet able to return to base. The Flaming Mayme’s crew wasn’t as fortunate and seven of the ten crew members perished with three parachuting out and eventually becoming German POW’s. The purpose of this post is to see if anyone has any information that could help me in my research.
As the earlier posts in this old thread illustrate, there has been debate for years about the exact circumstances surrounding the All American collision. I’ve obtained the Missing Air Crew Report (MACR 3516) of the Flaming Mayme’s incident and the Flaming Mayme’s bombardier (Lt. Birk) completed a form when he was released from captivity stating the Mayme was rammed by a 109 “just aft of the radio compartment” causing the aircraft to break into two pieces. He sites as his source (he was unable to view the collision given the fact he was inside the craft) a member of “The 301st Bomb Gp on same raid” who was subsequently shot down.
The Flaming Mayme’s tailgunner, T.Sgt Knight, also completed a report wherein he described the aircraft as “rammed in mid-air by Me-109 which hit amid-ship and broke the plane into several parts”. Again, given his position it is likely this information was related to him by another airman while in a POW camp. It is documented in the report that all three crewmen were reunited at Camp Lucky Strike after being liberated and most likely discussed the incident at that time, comparing notes on what they recall and were told by other POW’s.
On this mission which Lt. Blair describes as to the “Tunis Docks” the 304th’s Squadron Commander, Maj. Robert “Bob” Coulter, decided to fly the lead aircraft, moving Capt. Wikle to co-pilot. The navigator of another aircraft, Lt. Theodore “Dutch” Van Kirk, was interviewed on video in the mid-2000’s as part of the Witness to War project and he recounts in one segment seeing Bob Coulter’s plane get struck by a German fighter “head-on”. You can watch Dutch’s interview at the following link. Look for the video titled “Dutch Van Kirk, a B17 Navigator, Describes a Few Memorable Missions He Flew Over North Africa” starting just after the one minute mark: www.witnesstowar.org/search_result/videos/20
(Sorry, but being the FNG the forum rules won’t allow me to post a hyperlink until I’ve made 10 posts so you’ll have to copy and paste that link if you wish to view the video).
As noted in a reply above, the bombardier of the All American, Ralph Burbridge, does not state the lead ship was struck nor that the fighter who collided with his aircraft first struck the lead plane. However, he also made no statement disclaiming it. Indeed, he is quoted as saying “somewhere in the shuffle the lead ship was lost”. And I think it’s likely in that “shuffle” as he described it that the Flaming Mayme was struck. Given the stress of the battle it is at least possible that bombardier Burbridge did not witness that part of it. But, let me be clear, I am in no way suggesting he lied or intentionally withheld facts. Since his interview Burbridge has passed away so I am unable to follow up for clarification on his prior statements.
After digesting the information above and combining it with what follows I have reached a tentative conclusion that the same German fighter likely struck the lead aircraft (Flaming Mayme) and continued on to strike the All American. Granted, my tentative conclusion (emphasis on “tentative”) has holes of it’s own. However, what seems to be undisputed is that two German fighters (variously described in reports as Bf-109’s or Fw-190’s) committed to a head-on attack on a formation of B-17’s returning from a raid over Tunisia. It is indisputable from the photographs that the All American collided with another aircraft. However, between the statements within the MACR and Dutch Van Kirk’s video it appears equally certain that the lead aircraft, the Flaming Mayme, collided with an aircraft at the same time on the same mission. Therefore we’re left with two possible scenarios: either each German fighter struck a B-17 or one fighter struck both aircraft.
Luftwaffe records indicate two Bf-109’s (and no Fw-190’s) were lost in that same area on 1 Feb. 1943. They were piloted by Julius Meimberg and Erich Paczia. From the same records Paczia was listed as KIA as a result of a collision with a B17 and Meimberg bailed out after his aircraft was shot down. Meimberg was credited with one kill for the day, likely the Flaming Mayme. Though possible, it’s unlikely Meimberg would have survived a head-on collision and be able to bail out of his aircraft to fly many more missions. Further, Meimberg wrote his memoirs before passing and didn’t describe surviving a head-on collision with a bomber. Surely that would have warranted at least a footnote. (Meimberg’s memoirs are written in German, have not been translated to English, and I do not speak German hence I cannot state this with certainty. However, numerous online articles review the memoirs and relate various tales of his service yet none recount his involvement in a mid-air collision).
Hence I’ve reached my tentative (there’s that word again) conclusion that Paczia first collided with the Flaming Mayme and continued into the All American. Nope, I haven’t proved anything and I doubt I ever will. However, if I keep picking a this event I do believe I will be able to shed more light on the story. I have yet to find the 12th Air Force records for this mission which would conclusively prove both the All American and Flaming Mayme were on the same mission. It’s possible the All American was bombing Bizerte at the same time another mission with the Flaming Mayme was bombing the ports in Tunis. Both destinations were targets at that time in the war. Indeed the Flaming Mayme had bombed Bizerte just a little earlier (that destination is recorded in the MACR). However, from the few mission reports I have found it appears the target each day was one or the other, never both prior to the incident date.
My hope is the above posters, especially from posts #6 and #8, are still around and can share any further information they have about this historical event. I’ve found the original interview quoted in post #8 and it’s verbatim accurate. And I’ve read the claim in post #6 matching my (tentative) conclusion on several web sites and forums but have never found it attributed to any source. If anyone has any information to share I would greatly appreciate your input.
In closing let me state I understand this is a forum for professional pilots and this sub-forum is focused on military aviators. I am neither. I would like to take this last opportunity to thank all the servicemen and women, active duty and retired, regardless of the flag you serve/served under, for your commitment to professionalism and your patriotism. God bless you all.
Jess Bowers
Georgia, USA
