Burmese Spitfires
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Mark22....
I heard of an old DF loop being used to hang-dry fish in a small village in Kuala jumper, further research led to a bloke down the pub who said he remembers taking it off a Bomber in 1944 just before they hid a load of them and re-sold the land to some farmer called jimpy or something.
I am now convinced there are at least 20 B17s buried under Mr Jojo Jumpit's grandson's outside toilet (in perfect condition obviously)
Please send 1.5 million to 'The Lost Squadron Returns PLC' and I'll keep 2 aside for you
Kind Regards,
I heard of an old DF loop being used to hang-dry fish in a small village in Kuala jumper, further research led to a bloke down the pub who said he remembers taking it off a Bomber in 1944 just before they hid a load of them and re-sold the land to some farmer called jimpy or something.
I am now convinced there are at least 20 B17s buried under Mr Jojo Jumpit's grandson's outside toilet (in perfect condition obviously)
Please send 1.5 million to 'The Lost Squadron Returns PLC' and I'll keep 2 aside for you
Kind Regards,
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Do I detect a little humour, bordering on cynicism?
I am just back from Burma and like I said, there is still a way to go on this story.
It was a good few years back now but I once had a tip off, a rumour that there were two Seafires in a scrap yard in Warrington. Well c'mon, Warrington, so close to the active aviation preservation communities of Manchester and Liverpool.
I drove up from the South, checked it out...and bought them.
You may perhaps now know them as SX336/G-KASX & SX300/G-RIPH.
Mark
I am just back from Burma and like I said, there is still a way to go on this story.
It was a good few years back now but I once had a tip off, a rumour that there were two Seafires in a scrap yard in Warrington. Well c'mon, Warrington, so close to the active aviation preservation communities of Manchester and Liverpool.
I drove up from the South, checked it out...and bought them.
You may perhaps now know them as SX336/G-KASX & SX300/G-RIPH.
Mark
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And a very welcome sight SX336 has been on the display circuit too - currently missed after her little ding in France, but I expect she's not too far away from getting airborne again...
And what a pleasure it was meeting you when you most kindly showed me those Seafires a few years ago Mark22. I appreciate it. I fully vouch what you have just mentioned about those Seafires. You are without doubt the leading authority on Spits, so people should listen when you have something to say ! Keep up the good work.
A.
A.
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Mark
So, are you saying all that has happened in the last few weeks
is a smoke screen to get the media off their backs ?
Can you answer some questions ?
Why did it turn into such a media circus ?
Why did they dig where they did first ?
Why haven't the crate that has already been found
been drained and investigated ?
Yes, I am cynical but happy to be corrected if not fed BS
like what seems to have been fed to everyone so far.
So, are you saying all that has happened in the last few weeks
is a smoke screen to get the media off their backs ?
Can you answer some questions ?
Why did it turn into such a media circus ?
Why did they dig where they did first ?
Why haven't the crate that has already been found
been drained and investigated ?
Yes, I am cynical but happy to be corrected if not fed BS
like what seems to have been fed to everyone so far.
Why do they feel the need to feed the media B/S to get them off their backs...? Surely media interest is needed to bring money to the project...?
So far they've not offered the tiniest shred of evidence that anything related to Spitfires is in the ground; new, old, crashed, parts of, or a crate belonging to...
So far they've not offered the tiniest shred of evidence that anything related to Spitfires is in the ground; new, old, crashed, parts of, or a crate belonging to...
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Understand first point.
I and others have said from the start that the media hype was
designed to attract money / investors.
Re second point, exactly. I, and many others could find more Spitfire bits and pieces in Australia than they have found (or provided evidence of).
And Mark doesn't help by putting cryptic posts up
"Still a few more weeks to run on this one."
I and others have said from the start that the media hype was
designed to attract money / investors.
Re second point, exactly. I, and many others could find more Spitfire bits and pieces in Australia than they have found (or provided evidence of).
And Mark doesn't help by putting cryptic posts up
"Still a few more weeks to run on this one."
Last edited by 500N; 4th Feb 2013 at 21:20.
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500N.
No smoke screen. The press, PR and the glow of a substantial documentary are the 'payday' for the sponsors Wargaming.Net. No Spitfires required.
Media Circus. Not enough pre -planning for contingencies by the Wargaming.net. Calling a full press conference before the show got on the road in Rangoon was ill judged in my view. With nothing to say, David Cundall was, and watch the body language in the video, reluctantly drawn to reveal that they had dug down to a wooden base that could be a crate, full of water. What wasn't made too clear was that this was the week before Christmas and at Myitkyina some 900 miles North of Rangoon and at a place best not to go at this time, particularly with an entourage of 21 people, with all the adjacent Kachin rebel problems. It was on the military base and was one of four locations where a license has been awarded to dig.
A further press conference was scheduled for two weeks in to the programme with no contingency should Spitfires not be found. Delays due to permits and bureaucracy and much geophysical work in photogenic locations saw the first week through with digging not starting until the Monday of the second week again in the photogenic location rather than where David Cundall, his Burmese geologist, his Burmese business partner and the eye witness indicated. This would not have been a problem with more than a week to go but toward the end of day two digging, the military/airport authorities pulled the plug on the grounds of danger to the airport cable infrastructure. This looked mighty thin to me as h/s was meticulously being adhered to.
Although David Cundall is the 'Project Leader' he was not leading the project. It was being lead from my standpoint by the Wargaming top echelon and the documentary director with his team of about ten.
You then had the situation of the world's press and TV starting to arrive and nothing to tell them or show them. Wargaming sensibly decided not to present David Cundall to the BBC but fielded the 'conflict archaeologists' who on the strength of one 2-3 metre deep trench down to 1945 level advised the BBC there were no buried Spitfires in Burma, full stop...now go home, press conference cancelled...and you have read the result. Not good.
I know all of the principal three parties who were competing for the digging license. I am totally independent of all three and funded my own trip and accommodation.
I am still open minded and on balance, and with a few things it would be inappropriate to mention at this time in public, still think there is something in all this.
Currently, today, with the Wargaming and the documentary circus now departed, David Cundall is back at Mingaladon, his Burmese geologist having located 15 points of geophysical significance in the target area this past week including two of particular interest. Permission to dig on these points is being sought.
No Spitfires have been found. There may be no Spitfires to be found but for sure, as I said, there is still way to go on all this.
Mark22
No smoke screen. The press, PR and the glow of a substantial documentary are the 'payday' for the sponsors Wargaming.Net. No Spitfires required.
Media Circus. Not enough pre -planning for contingencies by the Wargaming.net. Calling a full press conference before the show got on the road in Rangoon was ill judged in my view. With nothing to say, David Cundall was, and watch the body language in the video, reluctantly drawn to reveal that they had dug down to a wooden base that could be a crate, full of water. What wasn't made too clear was that this was the week before Christmas and at Myitkyina some 900 miles North of Rangoon and at a place best not to go at this time, particularly with an entourage of 21 people, with all the adjacent Kachin rebel problems. It was on the military base and was one of four locations where a license has been awarded to dig.
A further press conference was scheduled for two weeks in to the programme with no contingency should Spitfires not be found. Delays due to permits and bureaucracy and much geophysical work in photogenic locations saw the first week through with digging not starting until the Monday of the second week again in the photogenic location rather than where David Cundall, his Burmese geologist, his Burmese business partner and the eye witness indicated. This would not have been a problem with more than a week to go but toward the end of day two digging, the military/airport authorities pulled the plug on the grounds of danger to the airport cable infrastructure. This looked mighty thin to me as h/s was meticulously being adhered to.
Although David Cundall is the 'Project Leader' he was not leading the project. It was being lead from my standpoint by the Wargaming top echelon and the documentary director with his team of about ten.
You then had the situation of the world's press and TV starting to arrive and nothing to tell them or show them. Wargaming sensibly decided not to present David Cundall to the BBC but fielded the 'conflict archaeologists' who on the strength of one 2-3 metre deep trench down to 1945 level advised the BBC there were no buried Spitfires in Burma, full stop...now go home, press conference cancelled...and you have read the result. Not good.
I know all of the principal three parties who were competing for the digging license. I am totally independent of all three and funded my own trip and accommodation.
I am still open minded and on balance, and with a few things it would be inappropriate to mention at this time in public, still think there is something in all this.
Currently, today, with the Wargaming and the documentary circus now departed, David Cundall is back at Mingaladon, his Burmese geologist having located 15 points of geophysical significance in the target area this past week including two of particular interest. Permission to dig on these points is being sought.
No Spitfires have been found. There may be no Spitfires to be found but for sure, as I said, there is still way to go on all this.
Mark22
Last edited by Mark22; 5th Feb 2013 at 08:19.
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Mark
Thank you.
At last, a straight answer.
I hope Spitfires are found, and if not, so be it but no way should
they have subjected everyone to such a circus IMHO.
Probably a few lessons might turn up in uni courses on how
not to plan activities involving media and PR !!!
Thanks again
Thank you.
At last, a straight answer.
I hope Spitfires are found, and if not, so be it but no way should
they have subjected everyone to such a circus IMHO.
Probably a few lessons might turn up in uni courses on how
not to plan activities involving media and PR !!!
Thanks again
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Mark
Could you expand on this ?
"I know all of the principal three parties who were competing for the digging license."
So are you saying that wargaming was not the only one trying to get a licence to dig ?
Others were trying to jump on David's find ?
Thanks
Could you expand on this ?
"I know all of the principal three parties who were competing for the digging license."
So are you saying that wargaming was not the only one trying to get a licence to dig ?
Others were trying to jump on David's find ?
Thanks
Three parties - competing for one license...?
Three separate unrelated parties competing for a license to dig in Myanmar at one location - or several locations...?
Which Ministries within the government have to 'approve'..? By fair means or foul.
Three separate unrelated parties competing for a license to dig in Myanmar at one location - or several locations...?
Which Ministries within the government have to 'approve'..? By fair means or foul.
Last edited by Load Toad; 5th Feb 2013 at 06:17.
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500N
At least three parties applied for the license to dig.
David Cundall sponsored by Wargaming.net
An Anglo-Israeli group who have been on the trail of these 'Spitfires' for almost as long a David Cundall and have been awarded the license in years past. Friendly rivals.
A UK group with major Spitfire interests who at one time looked to be linking up with David Cundall.
The license was awarded in October 2012 to the David Cundall group to dig at four locations in Myanmar.
Mark22
At least three parties applied for the license to dig.
David Cundall sponsored by Wargaming.net
An Anglo-Israeli group who have been on the trail of these 'Spitfires' for almost as long a David Cundall and have been awarded the license in years past. Friendly rivals.
A UK group with major Spitfire interests who at one time looked to be linking up with David Cundall.
The license was awarded in October 2012 to the David Cundall group to dig at four locations in Myanmar.
Mark22
Last edited by Mark22; 5th Feb 2013 at 06:21.
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Thank you.
Interesting to say the least.
Please keep us informed, you are much more interesting
than watching PR cluster fcuks on TV or reading in the newspaper
Interesting to say the least.
Please keep us informed, you are much more interesting
than watching PR cluster fcuks on TV or reading in the newspaper
Thanks for the information - I can't understand why the Wargaming group didn't explain this as it would have explained the complications (to an extent) of doing the dig and also enhanced credibility if three groups were interested enough to want to get licenses to dig.
I'll be taking my bucket & spade to Yangon on 20th and having a dig around the hotel...
I'll be taking my bucket & spade to Yangon on 20th and having a dig around the hotel...
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Load Toad
Agree, all it would have taken was less media conferences and one
explanation.
Mark22
You mentioned "No smoke screen. The press, PR and the glow of a substantial documentary are the 'payday' for the sponsors Wargaming.Net. No Spitfires required."
Sorry, but in my mind, payday would have been worth even more
if they had
1. Handled the whole thing better - as you have said
2. Had at least something to show for it - even the crate
3. Of course, found anything Spitfire related.
You don't get paid for digging the gold mine but when you find gold
I hope the documentary is not as much a CF as the way they
ran this whole shebang.
Agree, all it would have taken was less media conferences and one
explanation.
Mark22
You mentioned "No smoke screen. The press, PR and the glow of a substantial documentary are the 'payday' for the sponsors Wargaming.Net. No Spitfires required."
Sorry, but in my mind, payday would have been worth even more
if they had
1. Handled the whole thing better - as you have said
2. Had at least something to show for it - even the crate
3. Of course, found anything Spitfire related.
You don't get paid for digging the gold mine but when you find gold
I hope the documentary is not as much a CF as the way they
ran this whole shebang.
Last edited by 500N; 5th Feb 2013 at 08:55.
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Time Team were excavating a B26 crash tonight. Even though the large pieces were wreckage, their condition was a good indication of what aircraft structure is like after 67 years buried in wet ground. The data plates would survive very well, along with the engine blocks and propellors, not much else.
Hot Air.
They may be there - who knows, but there is no precedent for it whatever. However, so far, all we've seen is hot air and a circus of hangers-on.
One would have thought that after weeks at former RAF bases that they'd have found something....anything fer chrissakes. One tiny part of a Spit. A bolt, a rivet.. Apparently not. Zip.
I really hope they find them, if they are there, but so far, everything seems illogical. Big metal items, easy to spot on geophys, then they deliberately dig in the wrong place..... Talk of 'evidence' - but none shown. No wonder the whole fiasco has become the butt of endless humour.
The time for puplicity is after one has found something, not before.....
One would have thought that after weeks at former RAF bases that they'd have found something....anything fer chrissakes. One tiny part of a Spit. A bolt, a rivet.. Apparently not. Zip.
I really hope they find them, if they are there, but so far, everything seems illogical. Big metal items, easy to spot on geophys, then they deliberately dig in the wrong place..... Talk of 'evidence' - but none shown. No wonder the whole fiasco has become the butt of endless humour.
The time for puplicity is after one has found something, not before.....
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Richard III was not found "on a whim". He was found after a great deal of careful research and a considerable portion of luck. But all based on careful research. That's nothing to do with "whim". Imagining bodies to be buried is not whimsy. Imagining whole squadrons of aircraft so treated most certainly is.