Skipwith Common, Yorkshire
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Skipwith Common, Yorkshire
Okay, here's one for starters; flying out of Church Fenton most days, I see a lot of old disused airfields in North Yorkshire most of which I have found out about however yesterday I visited the above mentioned nature reserve on foot and noticed it has what seem to be old runways and peri tracks hidden amongst the trees. Anyone know the history?
Great idea for a forum, by the way. I am known as something of a 'spotter' at work and have been known to read Flypast avidly.
Great idea for a forum, by the way. I am known as something of a 'spotter' at work and have been known to read Flypast avidly.
Hi DB6.
From the location you quote it sounds like Riccall. Which was opened in 1942 and was the home of 1658 HCU, (Heavy conversion unit). Their task, in a nutshell, was to train fledgling pilots fresh from The Anson and Airspeed Oxford to fly complex four engined aircraft. The unit was equipped with up to 32 Halifax aircraft, most of which had seen better days. The next time you walk over the crumbling concrete just think what it would have been like to be an 18 year old with around 150 hours seeing those aircraft and knowing what you faced for the first time. There were some brave blokes about in those days!
Spiney
From the location you quote it sounds like Riccall. Which was opened in 1942 and was the home of 1658 HCU, (Heavy conversion unit). Their task, in a nutshell, was to train fledgling pilots fresh from The Anson and Airspeed Oxford to fly complex four engined aircraft. The unit was equipped with up to 32 Halifax aircraft, most of which had seen better days. The next time you walk over the crumbling concrete just think what it would have been like to be an 18 year old with around 150 hours seeing those aircraft and knowing what you faced for the first time. There were some brave blokes about in those days!
Spiney
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Hey Norman,
Would the converting pilots have had as much time as you say,after reading what seems like trillions of pages about our past hero's 150 hours would seem like a seasoned campaigner.
By the way I know that you may know this but the Yorksire air Museum have a Halifax that looks brilliant, and some time this year 2002, they are going to fit a new Bristol Hercules engine to the Port inner(I think that was No1) and then do a start to so that the workers and anyone else interested can hear what a Real Live Herc sounded like, should be very interesting!
Would the converting pilots have had as much time as you say,after reading what seems like trillions of pages about our past hero's 150 hours would seem like a seasoned campaigner.
By the way I know that you may know this but the Yorksire air Museum have a Halifax that looks brilliant, and some time this year 2002, they are going to fit a new Bristol Hercules engine to the Port inner(I think that was No1) and then do a start to so that the workers and anyone else interested can hear what a Real Live Herc sounded like, should be very interesting!
Hello Vfrpilotpb.
Well ..I don't pretend to be an expert on the training of the time but they would have done, (and I'm just talking about the pilots here), Their EFTS training up to roughly PPL with night rating status, then their twin conversion with a reasonable amount of IR training. Then the OTU Training where, I believe, the crews formed themselves before going on to the HCU. Now I could be wrong with the way this worked and if there's any expert out there I stand to be corrected. Anyway, by the time you would have reached the HCU you would have some experience but the learning curve would have been like the North Face of the Matterhorn! At the HCU you would get your hands on four engined heavies for the first time and do Fighter affiliation work, IR work, Nav work, etc and you would be crewed with your Flight Engineer for the first time because before this you wouldn't have been flying an aircraft that needed one. The courses lasted between two to three weeks at the HCU and ended with an op called a 'Bullseye' which envolved all the planning required for an actual raid and involved a long three legged cross country during which you would be attacked by fighters which would attempt to stalk the fledgling crews and when in firing position flash their nav lights to indicate they were firing. The AG's in the bomber flashing the fighter from their turrets with Aldis lights if they got a visual with the fighter.You can bet not many fighters got 'flashed'!
Spiney
Well ..I don't pretend to be an expert on the training of the time but they would have done, (and I'm just talking about the pilots here), Their EFTS training up to roughly PPL with night rating status, then their twin conversion with a reasonable amount of IR training. Then the OTU Training where, I believe, the crews formed themselves before going on to the HCU. Now I could be wrong with the way this worked and if there's any expert out there I stand to be corrected. Anyway, by the time you would have reached the HCU you would have some experience but the learning curve would have been like the North Face of the Matterhorn! At the HCU you would get your hands on four engined heavies for the first time and do Fighter affiliation work, IR work, Nav work, etc and you would be crewed with your Flight Engineer for the first time because before this you wouldn't have been flying an aircraft that needed one. The courses lasted between two to three weeks at the HCU and ended with an op called a 'Bullseye' which envolved all the planning required for an actual raid and involved a long three legged cross country during which you would be attacked by fighters which would attempt to stalk the fledgling crews and when in firing position flash their nav lights to indicate they were firing. The AG's in the bomber flashing the fighter from their turrets with Aldis lights if they got a visual with the fighter.You can bet not many fighters got 'flashed'!
Spiney
Spiney,
How's life in the village? We've just sold our house which was next to the pub. Shame really but living next door was making a mess of my liver. Have you asked for your old job back at the AWC yet?
heard that you were one of the those that suffered post 11 Sep; any employment offers yet or are you living the life of the idle rich?
How's life in the village? We've just sold our house which was next to the pub. Shame really but living next door was making a mess of my liver. Have you asked for your old job back at the AWC yet?
heard that you were one of the those that suffered post 11 Sep; any employment offers yet or are you living the life of the idle rich?
Hi Ham.
Sorry to say this mate but I think you're after someone else. That is unless I'm being particularly thick. AWC? I do like the life of the indolent rich though..Now, if only I could afford it!
Spiney
Sorry to say this mate but I think you're after someone else. That is unless I'm being particularly thick. AWC? I do like the life of the indolent rich though..Now, if only I could afford it!
Spiney
Obviously wrong bloke. Seemed to much of a coincidence. Disregard last.
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That must be it, Spiney, it's right next to Riccal village and adjoins Riccal Grange. Even without knowing its exact function it was obvious that it was once quite a big place. Thanks.
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Good morning DB6,
I think I saw that you fly out of Church Fenton, the ATC there are really nice, I did a couple of flights late last year to Sherburn from EGNH, and found the CF ATC very helpful and friendly, totally different than EGNM, if I was nearer I would buy em all a pint, or two ( sorry to go slightly, well a lot of thread)
My Regards
I think I saw that you fly out of Church Fenton, the ATC there are really nice, I did a couple of flights late last year to Sherburn from EGNH, and found the CF ATC very helpful and friendly, totally different than EGNM, if I was nearer I would buy em all a pint, or two ( sorry to go slightly, well a lot of thread)
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Spiney Norman
You missed out one key element of the training scheme, the OTU (Operational Training Unit).
Here, after individual training, crews would come together, less the Air Engineer as you mention, and convert to the Wellington. They would learn to fly and operate as a crew right the way up to actual ops that would always involve leaflet raids and sometimes actual ops such as the first 1000 a/c raid on Cologne.It was quite a comprehensive but intense course.
The crews would then convert to relevant 4 engined heavy at a Heavy Conversion Unit, of which Riccall was one. So these guys weren't as green as you suggest and they would certainly have more than 150 hours. The loss rates at these OTU and HCU's by the way was very heavy and many instructors were killed while serving on them in between operational tours.
Suit
You missed out one key element of the training scheme, the OTU (Operational Training Unit).
Here, after individual training, crews would come together, less the Air Engineer as you mention, and convert to the Wellington. They would learn to fly and operate as a crew right the way up to actual ops that would always involve leaflet raids and sometimes actual ops such as the first 1000 a/c raid on Cologne.It was quite a comprehensive but intense course.
The crews would then convert to relevant 4 engined heavy at a Heavy Conversion Unit, of which Riccall was one. So these guys weren't as green as you suggest and they would certainly have more than 150 hours. The loss rates at these OTU and HCU's by the way was very heavy and many instructors were killed while serving on them in between operational tours.
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Hi all, just rummaging through the bookshelf, you might want to get hold of the book that I've just started reading again entitled "Yorkshire Airfields in the Second World War" by Patrick Otter (ISBN 1-85306-542-0). Gives some mention to Riccall and many of the surrounding airfields including Marston Moor and is altogether a great read!
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Vfrpilotpb, I'll pass on your message. They are a good bunch, based at Linton actually (radar head is there) although they man the tower at CF too, and they take their responsibilities towards civilian traffic very seriously. The only time you might not get a reply instantly is when they're talking to one of us on UHF!
No comment, I think I'll add that one to the Christmas list. I love all this stuff.
No comment, I think I'll add that one to the Christmas list. I love all this stuff.
