Douglas Bader Interview
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Hmm...."Not available your area"!
How do we get around that??
How do we get around that??
Expat Shield
Once its downloaded and opened you will find the link in post #2 will work. You may find some audio from an advert playing in the background, but to get rid of that simply close the page that the ad is on.
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I am of the old school. I do not accept that character assassinations of our heros is warranted or fair. When I met him he came across as being pompous but his status as a hero was untouchable. His record was unimpeachable and his ideas were poo pooed by lesser commanders than Park but not by those he fought with. He got things done and to overcome a foolish moment at Woodley he paid the price but he returned the faith
placed in him. He became a good leader and was fearless. The RAF say he was shot down - he said he had a collision - who cares? DB was a brave man and one of this nations heros. What else matters?
placed in him. He became a good leader and was fearless. The RAF say he was shot down - he said he had a collision - who cares? DB was a brave man and one of this nations heros. What else matters?
When I started work in 1984 I worked with people of that era who were also in the war, and they possessed the same 'qualities'.
But apart from that the man is a hero, and deserves respect.
I have met quite a few WW2 pilots...some of high rank!!
I can honestly say that DB was the most pompous/unlikeable...the others were gents !
None of us can change our natural character,but as we age then we seem to either mellow out or not !!!
I can honestly say that DB was the most pompous/unlikeable...the others were gents !
None of us can change our natural character,but as we age then we seem to either mellow out or not !!!
Exactly. I think most people of that era come across that way.
You don't have to be an arse to be a hero.
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Douglas Bader Interview
Longer Ron, You are so right with your note concerning D.B.,when I was a member of The West London Aero club at White Waltham airfield where his aircraft was based-he would park it up-walk up to the club bar and say to the barmaid-"tea",no please,thanks or kiss my arse or anything,sat down on his own and waited for the barmaid to bring his tea over for him,and not once did I ever see him bring his wife in with him,and Lady Bader is such a sweet lady-she deserved better.my other comments would be
I met DB twice when I was a young man. He was my hero until I met him. I went on to serve in the Royal Air Force as a pilot for 18 years. I met and carried many senior officers from WW II and I can safely say that Bader was the most obnoxious person that I ever did meet.
He was a huge disappointment to me.
He was a huge disappointment to me.
I was privileged to meet him circa 1976 whilst still in school in London. He came to give some awards or such, I was an Air cadet, we chatted. It was an honour for me to meet him, and thats how I'll always remember it.
Heroes.
'Hero' ;- What an abused word this has become. Every snotty-nosed chav that can kick a ball is now referred to as a 'hero'. If we are talking real heroism - we are talking about something totally in another league. If we are judging individuals agaist this reference plane, then, frankly, the fact that they don't suffer fools gladly or may (Shock-horror..) be a tad rude, - is frankly of bugger-all importance. People do love to drag heros down. We see the same sort of character assasination levelled against Gibson. If you admire a person for their deeds, I see no reason for that admiration to be diminished one iota because they are socially inept. It's irrelevant. If you wan't to judge people for 'niceness', that's fine, but it's not a sound method for grading heros.
Baders men seemed to be prepared to fly through hell for him.
I've been luck enough to meet a few heros, and they were gentlemen and scholars to a man, but they were also men of their time. As was DB.
A friend of mine who knew DB told me a little story. Back when the brave lads of the IRA were putting Cemtex under anything that moved, a young soldier has his legs blown off. He was poorly and in a very depressed state in a hospital in NI. DB heard about it, jumped on a flight to NI and went to see the guy. He breezed in, gave the fellow a great pep-talk, and flew back to London. He wasn't asked, wasn't paid and didn't get a penny for it. I don't think the media even picked it up. Neither was it the only time.
Judge a man by his deeds.
Baders men seemed to be prepared to fly through hell for him.
I've been luck enough to meet a few heros, and they were gentlemen and scholars to a man, but they were also men of their time. As was DB.
A friend of mine who knew DB told me a little story. Back when the brave lads of the IRA were putting Cemtex under anything that moved, a young soldier has his legs blown off. He was poorly and in a very depressed state in a hospital in NI. DB heard about it, jumped on a flight to NI and went to see the guy. He breezed in, gave the fellow a great pep-talk, and flew back to London. He wasn't asked, wasn't paid and didn't get a penny for it. I don't think the media even picked it up. Neither was it the only time.
Judge a man by his deeds.
I do not think that anybody is denying that DB had some admirable qualities,and he certainly did do a lot of work with/for the disabled.
I simply do not accept the statement that he was a man of his time!
The other pilots of that time (like DB) had their own personalities,ones personality is not really of any 'time',it was DB's personality that got him into trouble and it was that personality that made him a popular leader with some of his commissioned pilots.I think perhaps it is his handling of lesser mortals (with the exception of the disabled) which is the problem!
rgds LR
I simply do not accept the statement that he was a man of his time!
The other pilots of that time (like DB) had their own personalities,ones personality is not really of any 'time',it was DB's personality that got him into trouble and it was that personality that made him a popular leader with some of his commissioned pilots.I think perhaps it is his handling of lesser mortals (with the exception of the disabled) which is the problem!
rgds LR
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Baders men seemed to be prepared to fly through hell for him.
Whether true or not it fits with general perception of those who knew flew with or knew him.
Tripe.
'I remember an interview with a contemporary of his, another pilot. I can't remember where but as I recall he had little regard for Bader and he felt that he got pilots killed unneccessarily. There was even a suggestion that his shootdown was no accident.
Whether true or not it fits with general perception of those who knew flew with or knew him.'
The people that actually knew him usually defended DB strongly, despite his clearly truculent nature. Baders tactics were actually aimed at reducing losses. Meeting someone fleetingly once or twice is assuredly not 'knowing them', much less quoting unatributed sources and rumours such as the above. I don't think Johnnie Johnson would have agreed with you. As for this 'shoot-down'. He said there was a collision. Since he was there (Rather than flying a laptop PC..), I'm rather inclined to take his word for it.
Whether true or not it fits with general perception of those who knew flew with or knew him.'
The people that actually knew him usually defended DB strongly, despite his clearly truculent nature. Baders tactics were actually aimed at reducing losses. Meeting someone fleetingly once or twice is assuredly not 'knowing them', much less quoting unatributed sources and rumours such as the above. I don't think Johnnie Johnson would have agreed with you. As for this 'shoot-down'. He said there was a collision. Since he was there (Rather than flying a laptop PC..), I'm rather inclined to take his word for it.
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For what it's worth, I met him once at RIAT, pre-lunch. Opinionated (aren't we all here?), a little gruff (I can be), but not unpleasant (which I might be, if I don't rate you, IMHO). He did what he did, and I admire him for that - regardless of his other reported traits. Cutting him to pieces now is, I think, somewhat unnecessary, a tad distasteful, and disingenuous. I have opinions of some posters here, but I wouldn't dream of slagging them off in public - not until you're dead that is
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We had him in the cockpit from just after takeoff at Sydney to after landing at Canberra and found him a funny interesting man. It was the eighties and he was on holidays. Maybe he had mellowed.
He was wrapped to sit in the jumpseat for the flight.
I've not seen the other side of him so enjoyed every moment of the flight.
We were mad as hell that it was only forty minutes chock to chock.
He was wrapped to sit in the jumpseat for the flight.
I've not seen the other side of him so enjoyed every moment of the flight.
We were mad as hell that it was only forty minutes chock to chock.
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I had the privilege of meeting him several times,whilst at Parties given by Jock Maitland at Biggin Hill Air Days and Battle of Britain Displays.Usually there were supporters present,especially Bob Standford Tuck!!Having been at the same School as his two sons(albeit some years younger than I) I had known him as a visiting parent.I used to know and talk to Tom Gleave about those times,who lived very close to me,and thus I found many differing opinions of this man,from his contemporaries-for a Great Man he undoubtably was,and most would agree.He usually kept the same Pint of Shandy going all night,whereas his colleagues ended up well in their cups.At the end of an evening it was DB that was still on his feet talking to the young pilots standing all around him,whilst the stories of the others blended with a haze of alcohol.If anyone still has the video of the 76 Biggin Hill Air Day they will know what I mean,during a usual Raymond Baxter interview with one the day after.Furthermore the delightful now unfortunately the "Late" Pete Thorn,whilst performing with BBMF at the Biggin Airshows,used to do a superb take off of DB strutting around on his tin legs behind his Mk2 Spitfire together with pipe,when DB appeared with same Raymond Baxter and "Jacko" Jackson,from the tail of the Lanc.To the amazement of those present,Douglas Bader laughed louder than anyone else and complimented him not only on his "Take off",but also on the standard of the BBMF flying under the then Boss Mick Rau,who was in convulsions!!!Such was this great man,who had the misfortune to really piss off others,but deep down has to be respected as a Star.Later on, when Chief Safety Officer with the CAA,he actually got me off a low flying charge-doing aerobatics below 1500' from a church spire and a couple of houses,which the Lords and Masters were trying to say was a built up area!!!!,so I for one have good reason to respect him fully.
At the end of an evening it was DB that was still on his feet
When I was at Marham, Kenneth More came to have a look around the squadron and one of our blokes couldnt resist remarking "I see your legs are a lot better". He laughed, although he'd probably heard it 100 times before.
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Meeting someone fleetingly once or twice is assuredly not 'knowing them', much less quoting unatributed sources and rumours such as the above. I don't think Johnnie Johnson would have agreed with you. As for this 'shoot-down'. He said there was a collision. Since he was there (Rather than flying a laptop PC..), I'm rather inclined to take his word for it.
As for the collision, this had been thoroughly debunked lately. But it was suggested he knew but maintained the fiction to protect the reputation of the pilot concerned. An admirable position to hold if true.
For what it's worth, I've no opinion negative or positive on his personality. But his achievement speaks for itself. Plus there's no disputing he was a superb pilot. If I could fly half as well as him with my two good legs. I would definitely be a better pilot than I am now.
But he wasnt as good as the 'Moustachioed aerobatic king of Tangmere' was he ?
= 'the other' Pat Gibbs
Edit - for clarity Flt Lt E P P Gibbs( Ltr W/cdr)
= 'the other' Pat Gibbs
Edit - for clarity Flt Lt E P P Gibbs( Ltr W/cdr)
Last edited by longer ron; 3rd Apr 2012 at 21:37.
At school in Sydney in 1955 we in the ATC lined up for his autograph.
But did not hear him address any of us. Gave the signed paper eventually to a young fella who was deeply into WW11 RAF and Luftwaffe books by the combatants.
Years later I was given a tape of himself addressing a mayorial gathering in the Launceston Town Hall. He and his wife had just driven the 200 odd kms Hobart to Launie. DB was in top form and his reply to the mayor's bumbling welcome is hilarious.
(PS Perhaps the funniest exchange recorded about his time as a guest of the Nazis is when the German doctor who first examined him said "Ah . . . I see you lost your leg before you lost your leg." Of course DB's first though was
"Just wait till the bugger sees the other one.")
But did not hear him address any of us. Gave the signed paper eventually to a young fella who was deeply into WW11 RAF and Luftwaffe books by the combatants.
Years later I was given a tape of himself addressing a mayorial gathering in the Launceston Town Hall. He and his wife had just driven the 200 odd kms Hobart to Launie. DB was in top form and his reply to the mayor's bumbling welcome is hilarious.
(PS Perhaps the funniest exchange recorded about his time as a guest of the Nazis is when the German doctor who first examined him said "Ah . . . I see you lost your leg before you lost your leg." Of course DB's first though was
"Just wait till the bugger sees the other one.")
Complete thread drift...
I remember lining up at school to hear Sir Roden Cutler speak about Gallipoli. The guy was brilliant...my childhood/adult 'hero'.
Sorry, carry on.
At school in Sydney in 1955 we in the ATC lined up for his autograph.
Sorry, carry on.