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Old 31st Jul 2011, 01:14   #1 (permalink)
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BOAC 707 crew video

This video is from the blog of a former BOAC Stewardess

Watch Libbie in full flight | Libbie Escolme Schmidt

Out of curiosity - one of the Stewardesses said she only ever flew 707s. Did BOAC have seperate Cabin Crew divisons for the 707 and VC10? I thought they would have flown on both

This video might bring back a few memories for some
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 07:35   #2 (permalink)
 
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Excellent video. As for 707/VC10 rostering, my sister was a stewardess on both during her time with BOAC/BA (she joined just before the name change). It was the 747 she never flew on.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 08:41   #3 (permalink)
 
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Pleasant enough film, but I wouldn't evaluate it too much for accuracy.

Several shots of Paris, which BOAC never served.

It seems that some of the comments are by pax rather than crew, who probably wouldn't recollect the difference in the two types 707 and VC10.

Shame 411A isn't still around to add his 707 recollections.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 08:52   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks for that. An unusally good video of life on a 707. Pity ALL that great service and style has and is leaving us fast.

I fear that airlines are taking a hit of a lifetime and much more is going to be lost yet. Including an airline or two! The ratio of fixed operating costs to directing operating costs are now very high.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 09:05   #5 (permalink)
 
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Hmmm.... video not working.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 10:10   #6 (permalink)
 
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Jackbr

A nice video and thanks for finding it. The Flight Engineer I used to go to Tech College with, back in the early 1960s so some good memories.

In the 60's the cabin crew in BOAC only flew one type, so yes the lady could have only flown B707 and remember the girls had to leave in those days when they got married or reached the age of 35.This meant they sometimes only worked for the company for a few years

In the 70s I believe the cabin crew then flew both B707 and VC10 with the B747 being the elite fleet on it's own.Indeed prior to the introduction of the VC-10 the B707 was considered the elite fleet, and indeed the long range of the later B707 still allowed it hold that title even after the introduction of the B747

I can confirm that BOAC/BA did indeed fly to Paris as on 18/03/75 I operated a VC-10 {G-ASCE} London _ Paris - Nairobi returning on the same route two days later. Now I have to say I do not recall this route in the 60's however.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 10:38   #7 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Brit312 View Post
I can confirm that BOAC/BA did indeed fly to Paris as on 18/03/75 I operated a VC-10 {G-ASCE} London _ Paris - Nairobi returning on the same route two days later. Now I have to say I do not recall this route in the 60's however.
Sounds like you could have been doing a subcharter for East African Airways, who did this route with their own VC-10s. EAA were starting to fall apart by this time and shortage of their own aircraft might be a cause.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 11:51   #8 (permalink)
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I know BOAC took on some Pratt and Whitney powered 707-336B/Cs towards the end of the 1960s/early 70s - I belive Hotel Uniform was an ex-Saturn bird.

LHR-SVO-TYO and LHR-ANC-TYO were 320B/C specific routes, however I think BOAC had more aircraft than was needed for just these two routings.

Did BOAC have any other routes specific to P&W 707s, or did they also operate alongside Conway 707-436s?
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 14:20   #9 (permalink)
 
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Regarding the BOAC P&W 707s.

The earliest ones, delivered from 1965 onwards, were all-cargo ones. Boeing never produced a 707 with both the cargo door and RR engines, so BOAC had to go for the 707-320C for these. BOAC had a worldwide all-cargo network across all continents, and these operated those routes.

In fact by the end of 1963 the RR 707 was out of production altogether, so BOAC were forced to go for the P&W model if they wanted more. The last BOAC RR aircraft actually came in early 1963, nearly two years before the first VC10 came in late 1964

Hotel Uniform (G-AWHU) was indeed originally ordered by Saturn, but cancelled before delivery and thus taken new by BOAC in August 1968. It retained its Saturn model number, and I believe it had some flight deck layout differences. In accounting terms it was seen as a replacement for RR 707 G-ARWE, which had been destroyed a couple of months before in the Heathrow accident. G-ATZD came from British Eagle a few months later, after the bankruptcy of that airline. All other P&W aircraft were BOAC orders.

G-AXGW/X were 320C aircraft which came in spring 1970 for the operation of the Tokyo via Anchorage route, which was slightly beyond the capabilities of the existing fleet.

G-AXXY/Z were 320B aircraft which came in Spring 1971, the only ones in the fleet without the cargo door, which gave them a further small range and efficiency advantage, and were ordered for the new Tokyo via Moscow route (the "Russiaway" route), which again was stretching things (especially for a westbound alternate if Moscow became closed in winter weather, I believe they normally filed for Helsinki as the alternate). They were also the first aircraft with IFE, in part because the entire westbound trip Tokyo to London was done in daylight rather than as an overnight sleeping service (and of course because IFE was just coming onto the market then).

The two Tokyo services did not require all four aircraft, in fact two could have just about managed them both, so they did appear on other services from time to time.

The last RR 707 was moved over to the Airtours fleet in 1976, whereas the last P&W aircraft went in 1983, so for the last 7 years the whole remaining BA long-haul 707 operation was with the P&W aircraft.

This thread has some interesting comments from the time.

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...dc8-707-a.html
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 15:08   #10 (permalink)
 
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Pity, video does not work for me either
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 16:19   #11 (permalink)
 
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That bought back some memories!! Back then it was a real airline and real people. Passengers came dressed for the journey, and not to go to WalMart/Tesco's. The food was great and the service even better. We were also treated very well, unlike today when everyone is a disposable number.
But, I suddenly got a reminded of age when Jerry Nash appeared as I was senior to him!!
The ex-Saturn aircraft were crewed by dedicated crews at least in the begining due to the differences in the instrumentation.
At the risk of starting something I came from VC10's to 707's and, to me it was a backwards move. The VC10 was quieter, more power, better cockpit etc. But the old 436/336 were still good reliable aircraft for their day.
In my early days I was called out from standby on one occaision and deadheaded to Honolulu, on Qantas, to pick up a service back (Westbound) to LHR. I went round the world in 9days!! The next trip was the full San Fransico service which went Eastbound to SFO and then turned around and came back Westbound with all the ramifications of time change etc. not a pleasant trip and 14 days long. The VC10 was doing a round the world service at the time.
Happy days.
Speedbird 48.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 16:22   #12 (permalink)
 
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The video worked for me, and brought back very nostalgic memories of my first flight out to the Far East in one of these aircraft a very long time ago. I was seated front row of coach, right up against the partition with the magazine rack separating the classes. So rather than a fold-down table, my dinner tray was a slot-in type from the front, which I somehow managed to dislodge accidentally in the middle of a meal ! A most embarrassing and unforgettable moment when my salt and pepper vials were sent flying.
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Old 31st Jul 2011, 16:36   #13 (permalink)
 
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Excellent Video of the good old days

Does anyone have an idea of how much the pilots were paid during those days ?
How much does that equate to in todays dollars / pounds ?

Also what were the additional benefits of working with an Airline (non cash)
as a pilot ?
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Old 1st Aug 2011, 00:05   #14 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Also what were the additional benefits of working with an Airline (non cash)as a pilot ?
Don't know about the jockeys back then, but I did alright out of BOAC. In 1969 their engineering management decided to upgrade the DME facility on all aircraft. Previously they had single AVQ70's, the upgrade made them a dual installation. Unfortunately RCA had ceased production of the AVQ70, so the factory in the US started assembling units from their vast inventory of spares. There were no engineers familar with the kit to test them over there, so they just shipped them to Sunbury on Thames for us to sort out.

As an engineer with RCA Aviation I was salaried, hence couldn't claim overtime. The boss said "keep track of the hours, assess them at your 'hourly' rate and I will sign off on expense claims to that value". We were working three or four hours extra a day and most weekends to get the AVQ70 units serviceable, and spending the "overtime" expenses at some of the best restaurants and theatres in London. So thank you BOAC for some of the best times of my life.
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Old 1st Aug 2011, 02:34   #15 (permalink)
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Thank you for your replies gentlemen,

In addition to the PW 707s listed above there was another aircraft delivered in 1971 - G-AYLT. I think Lima Tango was likely used alongside the 707-436s
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Old 1st Aug 2011, 09:55   #16 (permalink)
 
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The earliest ones, delivered from 1965 onwards, were all-cargo ones.
Not quite. They were 320Cs which could be configured for either pax of freight. In their early years they were operated purely by BOAC Cargo but later on were used for pax flights.

Pan Am, on the other hand, did operate some pure-freight 707s, ie they did not have any windows in the cabin.
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Old 1st Aug 2011, 10:21   #17 (permalink)
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Pan Am's initial 707-321Cs were normally operated as PAX aircraft - in the late 60s the windowless aircraft began to appear.

I think the former cargo G-ASZF went pax at one stage
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Old 1st Aug 2011, 10:30   #18 (permalink)

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For a while, part of my job in the mid 70s was the planning of the North Atlantic freighters. Inevitably each season we would plan a programme for n aircraft, and end up with n-1 as one of the convertibles would end up on passenger duty.

While our programme could theoretically be done – just – with the assets we had, inevitably things would go wrong and we were forever leasing aircraft, often at very short notice. At one point I was promoted and a rather sweet young lady, fresh out of university, was brought in as my assistant. She proved to be a fearsome negotiator with the airlines we were accustomed to use for these ad hoc charters and got their prices down to well below what I had been accepting, she earned her salary many times over, just on that part of the job.

From hazy memory, there was a longish gap when BOAC didn’t operate West Coast nonstops. In the 60s they had used 436s on San Francisco, which was at the limit of their range – the story went that they would refuel immediately on landing, when the tanks were cold and they could get more in. When Los Angeles was introduced in the 70s I think it started off as a 336 route before it switched to 747s.
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Old 1st Aug 2011, 12:00   #19 (permalink)
 
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There were various types of 320C aircraft. Some seem to have hauled the cargo door and strengthened floor about with them all their life without ever getting put into the cargo configuration - for US carriers I believe there was a federal subsidy to do this to form part of a reserve military capability, but others overseas did the same. Some were configured internally for cargo, but retaining their wndows. Then there were cargo-configured aircraft which had plugs in the windows, and depending on how well the livery had been applied you might think they had none, but they could be converted back over. I think the Pan Am ones were like this. Lastly there were I believe those built by Boeing with no window apertures, which restricted them to cargo operations for all time. There weren't many of these but I believe the American Airlines freighter fleet were like this.

Did BOAC use the plugs ?

In passing, when a cargo aircraft was delivered to BOAC, did it come with all the cabin furnishings ? Were they kept in store somewhere ready to be used ?

Quote:
there was a longish gap when BOAC didn’t operate West Coast nonstops. In the 60s they had used 436s on San Francisco, which was at the limit of their range
My 1962 BOAC timetable shows a 707 service BA591/2 several days a week to Los Angeles with an unspecified "technical landing" (which I am guessing might have been Winnipeg). These would be the original RR 707s.

By my 1971 BOAC timetable, Los Angeles was now served by a daily VC10, still BA591/2, which operated through New York. This was the through transpacific flight from Sydney, which eastbound departed LAX at midnight, and formed the morning "daylight" departure from JFK to London. Can't have been very competitive with the Pan Am/TWA nonstops.

This was replaced in BA times in the mid-1970s by another curious arrangement, where for some years BA chartered daily an Air New Zealand DC-10 operating through LAX to London, with full BA crews (I believe they went from London over to KLM at Amsterdam for DC-10 sim sessions). BA wouldn't use their 747-100s to the West Coast either, despite the US carriers doing so, it wasn't until the first 747-200Bs came along in 1978 that they changed over LAX and started San Francisco. Being a regular pax on the route then, I was on one of the last DC-10s and also one of the first 747s.

Sorry, long way from 707s !
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Old 1st Aug 2011, 13:59   #20 (permalink)
 
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Like cyflyer & Wander 00 the video doesn't work for me; can anyone explain ?
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