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Vanguard G-APEP arrival at Brooklands

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Vanguard G-APEP arrival at Brooklands

Old 10th Jul 2011, 23:56
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Vanguard G-APEP arrival at Brooklands

Just discovred this.


Seems they were quite lucky
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Old 11th Jul 2011, 16:42
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Agaricus Bisporus:

"more by luck than judgement"

So, you would have done much better obviously?

They only had about 800 metres left to land on at Brooklands (discounting obstacles) so Perf A had long gone out the window.

The pair of them practiced at EMA until they figured that they could do it. It was always going to be a "one way" landing and the aircraft was never ever going to fly again. It was always going to be a finely judged exercise and, unlike you, who was always going to get it perfect, they hit the undershoot but stopped very safely in the distance available.

It was a great pleasure in my life to have served in the Royal Air Force with Pete Moore and his lovely wife Sallie.

Sadly, we had to say farewell to Pete on 14 January 2011 in St Matthew's Church, Worthington.

At least the museum ended up with an intact Vanguard and Pete enjoyed his last Vanguard flight hugely.
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Old 11th Jul 2011, 17:06
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Having thought about it for a bit; did the "experts" at Brooklands advise the crew that they had left several lethal holes just short of the threshold? If not, why not?

The obvious question is "why did they not fill them in" as the CAA would no doubt have required.
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Old 11th Jul 2011, 20:04
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What exactly would have been the problem with filling the holes with concrete - or at least with soil compacted the same as the surrounding area? Also, there seem to be numerous bodies being permitted to hang around dangerously close to the runway edge.

2 s
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Old 11th Jul 2011, 21:02
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Temporary steel plates over the holes may have been a prudent idea?
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Old 12th Jul 2011, 20:23
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Just a quick question. How much damage would hitting a hole have done? How much of the aircraft's weight would be on the mains when it crossed the hole? The wheel would have spent about a tenth of a second unsupported; how much could the oleo mechanism have extended it during that time? Add to that the very small amount that the aircraft would have descended over the 10ft (Looks like) diameter of the hole. The same hole would have been a far more serious hazard later in the landing run.

After this excellent landing you could have used the airplane again!
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Old 12th Jul 2011, 21:40
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I too, had wondered about why they didn't put temporary steel plates over the holes like wot they do in NYC. Plays havoc with the car tyres though....The landing was pretty damned good all things considered, easy to be 20/20 after the event. Did the VC-10 have the same length to land on or was it before the Vanguard ?



SHJ
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Old 13th Jul 2011, 09:12
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack
Did the VC-10 have the same length to land on or was it before the Vanguard ?
The VC10 landed there in 1987, long before the Vanguard, and back then the full runway was still available.
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Old 25th Jul 2011, 19:19
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Great bit of flying. Does anyone still have the final CVR ??
Would make interesting and historic listening.
Be lucky
David
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Old 26th Jul 2011, 00:09
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Regret that the CVR ,FDR,and tech log were removed from the aircraft after it landed at Brooklands as the CAA demanded that these were kept by the operator for we believe 5 years after the aircraft is withdrawn from service it is now 15 years since it landed and Huntings have now stopped flying their own aircraft so where they are now ?they could have been rubbed clean and reused or sold as scrap otherwise the aircraft was complete

Last edited by avionic type; 22nd Aug 2011 at 00:21. Reason: more added
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Old 11th Aug 2011, 07:41
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The massive props on the Vanguard had an important role in stopping. In a strong headwind Ground Idle alone was like running into the proverbial brick wall.
Normal landing technique was to flare before closing the throttles to preserve airflow over the elevators. However, if you were brave enough to close the throttles first (and were ready for the subsequent heave) the landing distance could be shortened considerably.
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Old 11th Aug 2011, 15:03
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scotbil said
The massive props on the Vanguard had an important role in stopping. In a strong headwind Ground Idle alone was like running into the proverbial brick wall.
Normal landing technique was to flare before closing the throttles to preserve airflow over the elevators. However, if you were brave enough to close the throttles first (and were ready for the subsequent heave) the landing distance could be shortened considerably.


My question is how did you get round the flight fine pitch stop which was locked in position until the weight on wheels (squat) switch was made??

tristar 500
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Old 11th Aug 2011, 16:05
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You may have misunderstood me.
Didn't suggest you could get into Ground Idle in flight - just flight idle before the flare was considered daring enough!
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Old 18th Aug 2011, 20:23
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Firstly, JW411, sorry to hear of Peter Moore's passing.

Secondly, as it was I that drove Peter to inspect said 'hole' that very day after the landing, it was an unfortunate hole in the proverbial Swiss cheese; mutli-layered management (museum full-time staff and volunteers included) which took the belief that all of the tree holes had been filled. Both practice approaches were spot on for the concrete, though on the final approach the aircraft contacted the grass south of the road onto the road surface, then bounced onto the grass on the northern edge and then onto the runway.

As others have pointed out, this hole was actually one of many obstacles of flying such an aircraft into a small strip. The numbers of folk commented upon by Two Sheds were under strict control, either being escorted press or those with a need to be there; even in the 1990s there was such a thing as risk management. Of course by today's standards, it's unlikely the such an operation would be approved - the last flight of the Vimy in 2009 being a case in point.

Having been there, seen it and felt HUNTING SUPERB as she thundered to a halt that day, it was a privilege to have been part of it and 16 years later can still assure you that the preparation and execution was as safe as it could have been.
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Old 19th Aug 2011, 17:17
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the CAA demanded that these were kept by the operator for we believe 5 years after the aircraft is withdrawn from service it is now 15 years since it landed and Huntings have now stopped flying their own aircraft so where they are now ?
Perhaps someone should contact Air Contractors as Hunting was later renamed and check if they're still available either in East Midlands or Dublin?

I worked for Hunting Cargo Airlines at the time and had the privilege of looking around G-APEP while it was on the ramp in Dublin airport one day in 1996. I had it all to myself for half an hour. So took the opportunity to inhale the old aeroplane smell while sitting in the Captain's seat and having a good look through the manuals. What tales it could tell if it could talk.

I had hoped to organise a flight in it but it retired before that could happen. A visit to Brooklands to see has long been on my list of to dos.
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Old 21st Aug 2011, 06:22
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Life before bullshit health and safety.

Great stuff and thanks for sharing the vid.
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Old 22nd Aug 2011, 00:43
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Sorry Corsair but I dont think that they exist any longer for unless the plane was involved in an accident or incident there is no reason to keep them after the required time, as we used to say "there is very little sentiment in civil aviation "[except for Huntings NOT selling the plane for scrap ]and they were old technology later a/c had better systems and were not compatable
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Old 22nd Aug 2011, 16:02
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Vanguard GAPEP

GAPEP was flown from Wisley to Heathrow on13th December1961
Airborne 1610 landed 1710.to start BEA service.
I was in the Right Hand Seat. We had on bord a new bit of kit called a Transponder thats why the flight lasted one hour so ATC could play with us.,
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Old 22nd Aug 2011, 19:47
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G-APEP

Props, you have private mail

tristar 500
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Old 23rd Feb 2012, 04:50
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Gary West

Anyone know how I could contact Gary West, who was part of this great crew? Many thanks, Mike
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