Seeking information on Captain C. N. Pelly - my grandfather
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dash7fan ....does the Canadair book photo of Capt Pelly look like either of the white-capped crew of Chamberlain's Koln visit in these?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_Abkommen.jpg
and
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_Abkommen.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_Abkommen.jpg
and
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_Abkommen.jpg
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@Albert Driver - thank you for the reference, I actually work for British Airways (computers not flying!) and have viewed Captain Pelly's personnel records there. I will try & scan them in as they make interesting reading - medical history / leave / awards / promotions / planes flown etc. I didn't know about the Croydon Airport Visitors' Centre - I will get in contact with them.
@Warmtoast - thank you for those wonderful pictures, so nice to see what the Britannia actually looked like. I'm sorry but I don't know if my grandfather flew on this flight - I am going to try & search for his log books in my parents loft when I am down over the summer, fingers crossed!
@dash7fan - thank you for so much the reference, how fantastic there is a picture - I've ordered this book too (my Amazon bill is growing by the minute!!).
@A30yoyo - I think your 2nd photo has my grandfather in the middle (not 100% sure but it does look very similar as his ears stuck out slightly). I looked at the picture of Caspareuthus and his nose looked too big to be the pilot in the pciture - my guess anyway!
@Warmtoast - thank you for those wonderful pictures, so nice to see what the Britannia actually looked like. I'm sorry but I don't know if my grandfather flew on this flight - I am going to try & search for his log books in my parents loft when I am down over the summer, fingers crossed!
@dash7fan - thank you for so much the reference, how fantastic there is a picture - I've ordered this book too (my Amazon bill is growing by the minute!!).
@A30yoyo - I think your 2nd photo has my grandfather in the middle (not 100% sure but it does look very similar as his ears stuck out slightly). I looked at the picture of Caspareuthus and his nose looked too big to be the pilot in the pciture - my guess anyway!
What an unfortunate position. To paste from Wikipedia (for brevity) :
"Ribbentrop loathed Neville Chamberlain, and viewed his appeasement policy as some sort of British scheme to block Germany from her rightful place in the world.Chamberlain for his part after meeting Ribbentrop in February 1938 wrote in a letter to his sister that 'Ribbentrop is so stupid, so shallow, so self-centred and so self-satisfied, so totally devoid of intellectual capacity, that he never seems to take in what is said to him' ".
Poor old Capt. Pelly stuck between these two. No wonder he looks worried !
"Ribbentrop loathed Neville Chamberlain, and viewed his appeasement policy as some sort of British scheme to block Germany from her rightful place in the world.Chamberlain for his part after meeting Ribbentrop in February 1938 wrote in a letter to his sister that 'Ribbentrop is so stupid, so shallow, so self-centred and so self-satisfied, so totally devoid of intellectual capacity, that he never seems to take in what is said to him' ".
Poor old Capt. Pelly stuck between these two. No wonder he looks worried !
Mandy..........
Sorry, touch of nit picking coming up !!! Dragon Rapide and Rapide are one and the same. The de Havilland 89 was originallly referred to as the Dragon Six. The name was changed to Dragon Rapide, this was shortened to Rapide, also "Drag Rap" (slang !!). (First flight 17 April 1934)
The Dragon Rapide was a development of the de Havilland 84 Dragon. (First flight 24 November 1932)
Your grandfather will certainly have flown both. Hillmans operated both types.
Apologies for nit picking.........!!!
Planemike
- As well as the planes I mentioned he also flew Air Speed Ferries (a three-engined type), Avro 10, Dragon Rapide and later the Rapide.
The Dragon Rapide was a development of the de Havilland 84 Dragon. (First flight 24 November 1932)
Your grandfather will certainly have flown both. Hillmans operated both types.
Apologies for nit picking.........!!!
Planemike
I wonder who the Airspeed Ferry flying was for. There were only a handful of these built, in 1932-33, and none operated by the companies mentioned before. It was really a joy-riding machine rather than a serious airliner, even for its day.
My guess would be that he was building early flying hours with Alan Cobham's Flying Circus, before his Hillman time. Cobham, who had inaugurated the design, was well known nationally, and had two of the type. They did extensive weekend summer flying out of farm fields around the country with Tiger Moths etc, and the Ferry, which they managed to get 10 passenger seats into, enabled a much higher number of passengers to be taken. My father took his first flight at one such event.
My guess would be that he was building early flying hours with Alan Cobham's Flying Circus, before his Hillman time. Cobham, who had inaugurated the design, was well known nationally, and had two of the type. They did extensive weekend summer flying out of farm fields around the country with Tiger Moths etc, and the Ferry, which they managed to get 10 passenger seats into, enabled a much higher number of passengers to be taken. My father took his first flight at one such event.
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@Planemike - Thanks for clarifying! Please continue to do so, I am new to all this but my reading list is growing by the day!
@WHBM - After his early RAF days, Pelly went to Midland Scottish Air Ferries from Sept 1933 to October 1935, this was then amalgamated with Hillmans. Hope that explains the connection, no flying circuses!
An interesting link on Midland Scottish Air Ferries here - Come Fly With Me. Guess my grandfather was the "other RAF pilot" it refers to.
@WHBM - After his early RAF days, Pelly went to Midland Scottish Air Ferries from Sept 1933 to October 1935, this was then amalgamated with Hillmans. Hope that explains the connection, no flying circuses!
An interesting link on Midland Scottish Air Ferries here - Come Fly With Me. Guess my grandfather was the "other RAF pilot" it refers to.
Like you WHBM I was a bit puzzled by the Airspeed Ferry (of which only four were built). However there may be a connection to Hillmans:-
Quote from AJJ's BCA Vol 1. ""In 1933 a second and final pair of these aeroplanes, G-ACBT and 'FB, had been acquired by John Sword, a bus operator of wide experience and managing director of Midland and Scottish Air Ferries Ltd. The two white Ferries, with their smart red trimmings, flew for two seasons on the company'e services from Renfrew to Cambelltown, to Belfast and Speke. Here, by mutual arrangement, they connected with Hillman's Dragons, thus giving a through trunk service to the South of England. In the face of increasing competition, the firm closed down at the end of 1934 and the Ferries were put up for sale. ""
So a connection to Hillmans and in those days the loan of a pilot or indeed aircraft would not have been too surprising, particularly as they appear to have been collaborating. Think that could explain Captain Pelly having a few hours in an AS Ferry in his log book.
Would also guess the Ferry would have been of interest to Hillman, a man who was interested in flying as many people as possible for the lowest cost.
Planemike
Quote from AJJ's BCA Vol 1. ""In 1933 a second and final pair of these aeroplanes, G-ACBT and 'FB, had been acquired by John Sword, a bus operator of wide experience and managing director of Midland and Scottish Air Ferries Ltd. The two white Ferries, with their smart red trimmings, flew for two seasons on the company'e services from Renfrew to Cambelltown, to Belfast and Speke. Here, by mutual arrangement, they connected with Hillman's Dragons, thus giving a through trunk service to the South of England. In the face of increasing competition, the firm closed down at the end of 1934 and the Ferries were put up for sale. ""
So a connection to Hillmans and in those days the loan of a pilot or indeed aircraft would not have been too surprising, particularly as they appear to have been collaborating. Think that could explain Captain Pelly having a few hours in an AS Ferry in his log book.
Would also guess the Ferry would have been of interest to Hillman, a man who was interested in flying as many people as possible for the lowest cost.
Planemike
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mandyW...you may have picked up on flickr my note that Capt Pelly flew the repaired Mosquito G-AGFV back to the UK Dec43...Gibby Rae had belly landed it at Barkaby some months earlier (source 'Blockade Runners')
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@Planemike - you are spot on, he did work for Midland Scottish Air Ferries from Sept 1933 to October 1935.
His join date at M&S AF is quoted as 1/3/1934 at Hooton Park, Cheshire, after leaving the RAF, and was still with them on closure in July when he joined Hillmans. His earlier career as given as RAF 502 reserve squadron in Ulster on leaving school in 1927 then 216 squadron in North Africa including participation in a RAF 1931 Cairo-Cape flight ( the book says the first such flight but this was in 1926!)
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Many thanks to DeepestSouth who directed me to these references about my grandfather at:
Phorum :: WWW.MOSSIE.ORG Discussion Forum
I loved the quote from George Battye - "Nigel Pelly was a wonderful fellow. If you came home and found him in bed with your wife, you would probably take him a cup of tea. A lovely person--no one had anything bad to say about him" !!!
Wonderful!
I am planning to go to the RAF Leuchars Air Show in September, do let me know if anyone who has posted to this thread is also visiting as I'd love to say thanks in person!
Phorum :: WWW.MOSSIE.ORG Discussion Forum
I loved the quote from George Battye - "Nigel Pelly was a wonderful fellow. If you came home and found him in bed with your wife, you would probably take him a cup of tea. A lovely person--no one had anything bad to say about him" !!!
Wonderful!
I am planning to go to the RAF Leuchars Air Show in September, do let me know if anyone who has posted to this thread is also visiting as I'd love to say thanks in person!
Lost my "Sword in the Sky" a few years ago. Shame. The colour painting on the front cover features a number of the personalities of the airline in semi-cartoon style, so may include NP.
Few notes on the early airlines. Midland & Scottish only existed for just over a year, June 1933 to July 1934, before it closed down and sold its fleet (apart from the Ferry's, which were obsolete), although a few non-scheduled services trickled on for some months. Both John Sword of M&S and Ted Hillman had made a lot of money by building up large bus companies which they sold out to major operators, and used the money to get into aviation, so they had much in common. Hillman were expanding their fleet, and therefore pilot force, rapidly in 1934. Ted Hillman died at the end of that year and the airline was sold to investors, Whitehall Securities, who bought up other operators (including Northern & Scottish, not to e confused with M&S), and formed the original British Airways Ltd.
If Nigel Pelly came from Northern Ireland, M&S were one of the first operators to base an aircraft in Belfast.
If wanting to read up on the history of all these pioneer independents, REG Davies' British Airways Vol 1 1919-39 covers pretty much every single operator. Sorry Mandy, no mention of Capt Pelly in the index.
Few notes on the early airlines. Midland & Scottish only existed for just over a year, June 1933 to July 1934, before it closed down and sold its fleet (apart from the Ferry's, which were obsolete), although a few non-scheduled services trickled on for some months. Both John Sword of M&S and Ted Hillman had made a lot of money by building up large bus companies which they sold out to major operators, and used the money to get into aviation, so they had much in common. Hillman were expanding their fleet, and therefore pilot force, rapidly in 1934. Ted Hillman died at the end of that year and the airline was sold to investors, Whitehall Securities, who bought up other operators (including Northern & Scottish, not to e confused with M&S), and formed the original British Airways Ltd.
If Nigel Pelly came from Northern Ireland, M&S were one of the first operators to base an aircraft in Belfast.
If wanting to read up on the history of all these pioneer independents, REG Davies' British Airways Vol 1 1919-39 covers pretty much every single operator. Sorry Mandy, no mention of Capt Pelly in the index.
?
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Thanks scotbill - looking forward to my copy arriving! Managed to get a copy for £1.42 off Amazon - hope it isn't too battered!
@WHBM - Nigelwas born in Madras and moved to Northern Ireland in 1911.
@WHBM - Nigelwas born in Madras and moved to Northern Ireland in 1911.
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Mandy, the latest edition of Aeroplane has an article about D'Arcy Grieg who flew the annual RAF 'Flag Showing Flight' from Egypt to Cape town in 1931 and he mentions Fg. Off. C.N. Pelly as flying, with Fg. Off. Knapp, the third aircraft of the flight. It's a good account & you may want to pick up a copy.
Cheers,
RT
Cheers,
RT