Qantas and the 747SP
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Qantas and the 747SP
Did anyone fly the 747SP at Qantas?
I'm interested to know how popular the aircraft was amongst QF pilots and cabin crew, or any general memories of the aircraft.
Despite operating only two aircraft (VH-EAA and EAB) the SPs flew to quite varied cities, such as HRE, CGK, LAX, HKG, NGO, DPS, AKL, WLG, HNL and I think JNB, FCO, LHR etc
I'm interested to know how popular the aircraft was amongst QF pilots and cabin crew, or any general memories of the aircraft.
Despite operating only two aircraft (VH-EAA and EAB) the SPs flew to quite varied cities, such as HRE, CGK, LAX, HKG, NGO, DPS, AKL, WLG, HNL and I think JNB, FCO, LHR etc
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Back in the 80s and 90s it flew wherever QF flew. It was initially used on SYD-LAX non stop before the 747-400 was around but following the 400 it was a thorn in the side of QF. They were good aircraft but the 400 did what the SP did but with more pax, so in the end it was just a general dogs body until they were cut up.
In my opinion they should have sent 1 to Longreach instead of a -200. They were a much more interesting and unique aircraft.
In my opinion they should have sent 1 to Longreach instead of a -200. They were a much more interesting and unique aircraft.
Jack
I didn't fly it but from a weight & balance point of view it was a dream. Having such a short fuselage on such a big wing meant you had to do something really outrageous to get it out of trim. The great irony is that Qantas bought them to serve the NZ capital after Air NZ disposed of their DC-8s. When the 767 came along the SPs were used on trans-Pacific routes for which they were designed. There was an even greater irony after they were no longer required on the Pacific. For a time Qantas was using what was once the world's longest range airliner on Brisbane-Sydney-Brisbane shuttles (approx 1 hour).
Rgds
I didn't fly it but from a weight & balance point of view it was a dream. Having such a short fuselage on such a big wing meant you had to do something really outrageous to get it out of trim. The great irony is that Qantas bought them to serve the NZ capital after Air NZ disposed of their DC-8s. When the 767 came along the SPs were used on trans-Pacific routes for which they were designed. There was an even greater irony after they were no longer required on the Pacific. For a time Qantas was using what was once the world's longest range airliner on Brisbane-Sydney-Brisbane shuttles (approx 1 hour).
Rgds
another superlame
Agree with you but why not both? I suspect it may have been a case of destroying the evidence!
Rgds
In my opinion they should have sent 1 to Longreach instead of a -200. They were a much more interesting and unique aircraft.
Rgds
I flew on the SP on the trans-Pacific route a couple of times in the early 80s. I thought it always looked very strange sitting at the gate, with the short fuselage.
A friend of mine in Brisbane who was a Qantas FO, told me that if they "forgot" that they were flying the SP, the takeoff performance was spectacular.
A friend of mine in Brisbane who was a Qantas FO, told me that if they "forgot" that they were flying the SP, the takeoff performance was spectacular.
When I was a mad spotter in the 80's I made a specific trip just to see the two when they were parked outside the BA hangers at LHR. As I recall, when it was EAA's turn, it was bloody freezing. EAB's was much more civilised though but both visits were at night and I still have the slides somewhere in the loft.
AFAIK the SP was purchased by Charlie Q to serve WLG. I operated it a few times on that run. A real handful because CASA, in its infinite wisdom, forbade any derate so we had full charge with a level off at 3000ft. Fun, fun, fun!!
Then we put her on the SYD-SFO-SYD and SYD-LAX-SYD routes where she was meant to be. Most departures were at gross weight and that lead to a dog's breakfast of fuel feed on the ground. Can't remember fully now but it was really complex for us FEOs with a standard CWT to #1 & #4 engs, inbd tank to eng for T/O to be set as late as possible prior to line up. She also had #2aux & #3aux tanks to keep us on our toes. She did other long thin routes like SYD-PEK-SYD (Beijing). It was common to be at FL430 in late crz. Planning a descent was interesting!
The engines were trimmed to C2 thrust, well below B4 on the other RR B747s so QF had a place to park less than wonderfully performing engines to run them out to overhaul hours.
It was a bitch in the circuit area because of the vast thrust changes available with tiny T/L movements. Very exciting on final!! I got to try it when I re-mustered and did base training - not fun!! OTOH a missed approach was truly exciting trying to get the beast back to normal ROC.
To sum up, the SP did just what she was designed to do quite well. She looked shabby after the need for super long range went away. Always a challenge with such tight MTW and MTOW limits and our lack of day to day familiarity with her.
Then we put her on the SYD-SFO-SYD and SYD-LAX-SYD routes where she was meant to be. Most departures were at gross weight and that lead to a dog's breakfast of fuel feed on the ground. Can't remember fully now but it was really complex for us FEOs with a standard CWT to #1 & #4 engs, inbd tank to eng for T/O to be set as late as possible prior to line up. She also had #2aux & #3aux tanks to keep us on our toes. She did other long thin routes like SYD-PEK-SYD (Beijing). It was common to be at FL430 in late crz. Planning a descent was interesting!
The engines were trimmed to C2 thrust, well below B4 on the other RR B747s so QF had a place to park less than wonderfully performing engines to run them out to overhaul hours.
It was a bitch in the circuit area because of the vast thrust changes available with tiny T/L movements. Very exciting on final!! I got to try it when I re-mustered and did base training - not fun!! OTOH a missed approach was truly exciting trying to get the beast back to normal ROC.
To sum up, the SP did just what she was designed to do quite well. She looked shabby after the need for super long range went away. Always a challenge with such tight MTW and MTOW limits and our lack of day to day familiarity with her.
AFAIK the SP was purchased by Charlie Q to serve WLG. I operated it a few times on that run. A real handful because CASA, in its infinite wisdom, forbade any derate so we had full charge with a level off at 3000ft. Fun, fun, fun!!
Then we put her on the SYD-SFO-SYD and SYD-LAX-SYD routes where she was meant to be. Most departures were at gross weight and that lead to a dog's breakfast of fuel feed on the ground. Can't remember fully now but it was really complex for us FEOs with a standard CWT to #1 & #4 engs, inbd tank to eng for T/O to be set as late as possible prior to line up. She also had #2aux & #3aux tanks to keep us on our toes. She did other long thin routes like SYD-PEK-SYD (Beijing). It was common to be at FL430 in late crz. Planning a descent was interesting!
The engines were trimmed to C2 thrust, well below D4 on the other RR B747s so QF had a place to park less than wonderfully performing engines to run them out to overhaul hours.
It was a bitch in the circuit area because of the vast thrust changes available with tiny T/L movements. Very exciting on final!! I got to try it when I re-mustered and did base training - not fun!! OTOH a missed approach was truly exciting trying to get the beast back to normal ROC.
To sum up, the SP did just what she was designed to do quite well. She looked shabby after the need for super long range went away. Always a challenge with such tight MTW and MTOW limits and our lack of day to day familiarity with her.
Then we put her on the SYD-SFO-SYD and SYD-LAX-SYD routes where she was meant to be. Most departures were at gross weight and that lead to a dog's breakfast of fuel feed on the ground. Can't remember fully now but it was really complex for us FEOs with a standard CWT to #1 & #4 engs, inbd tank to eng for T/O to be set as late as possible prior to line up. She also had #2aux & #3aux tanks to keep us on our toes. She did other long thin routes like SYD-PEK-SYD (Beijing). It was common to be at FL430 in late crz. Planning a descent was interesting!
The engines were trimmed to C2 thrust, well below D4 on the other RR B747s so QF had a place to park less than wonderfully performing engines to run them out to overhaul hours.
It was a bitch in the circuit area because of the vast thrust changes available with tiny T/L movements. Very exciting on final!! I got to try it when I re-mustered and did base training - not fun!! OTOH a missed approach was truly exciting trying to get the beast back to normal ROC.
To sum up, the SP did just what she was designed to do quite well. She looked shabby after the need for super long range went away. Always a challenge with such tight MTW and MTOW limits and our lack of day to day familiarity with her.
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As a passenger am I right in thinking that high altitudes on the SP weren't that comfortable. I seem to remember ozone affecting nasal mechanics, certainly mine, - until some sort of anti ozone kit was fitted.
I flew SYD-LAX-SFO in early Feb 1990. Flight was timetabled as an SP but one of the new -400s was substituted at the last minute.
One of the most comfortable flights I have ever done. Every passenger had about 3 seats each!
One of the most comfortable flights I have ever done. Every passenger had about 3 seats each!
Not as comfortable as a BA flight from HK to LHR Xmas eve 1998. There were twelve passengers in the rear compartment so we had a row each plus. I taught a few people how to make up a scouts bed to they could stretch out on the centre seats and sleep all the way. The hosties, completely unemployed, plied us with bottles of wine until we passed out.
The shortest trip halfway across the world, ever.
The shortest trip halfway across the world, ever.
For a while the 747SP, did Cairns-Darwin-Singapore in the late 90's.
Did the 747SP have dedicated flight crew, or were they part of the 747-200/300 crews?
What other airlines operated the 747SP?
Did the 747SP have dedicated flight crew, or were they part of the 747-200/300 crews?
What other airlines operated the 747SP?
Did the 747SP have dedicated flight crew, or were they part of the 747-200/300 crews?
* I did get asked by Luke Butler to take his from Brisbane to Asia, but I declined. Three of my other mates did the job.
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forget
"As a passenger am I right in thinking that high altitudes on the SP weren't that comfortable. I seem to remember ozone affecting nasal mechanics, certainly mine, - until some sort of anti ozone kit was fitted."
Absolutely! I had serious sinus problems after a 747SP Lufthansa flight from Frankfurt to Los Angeles. It was around a 14 hour trip and a passenger who smoked a very smelly Meerschaum pipe from post take off to pre touchdown didn't help!
I [upper deck SLF] complained about the smoke but was told Mr Meerschaum was a regular First Class Lufthansa traveller and I wasn't, so he won! That was my last 747SP flight because of the sinus problem.
ISTR FL 450 was quite a long section of the cruise altitude. Then Concorde's FL590/600 and in high pressure/normal humidity one stepped out feeling GREAT!!!!
"As a passenger am I right in thinking that high altitudes on the SP weren't that comfortable. I seem to remember ozone affecting nasal mechanics, certainly mine, - until some sort of anti ozone kit was fitted."
Absolutely! I had serious sinus problems after a 747SP Lufthansa flight from Frankfurt to Los Angeles. It was around a 14 hour trip and a passenger who smoked a very smelly Meerschaum pipe from post take off to pre touchdown didn't help!
I [upper deck SLF] complained about the smoke but was told Mr Meerschaum was a regular First Class Lufthansa traveller and I wasn't, so he won! That was my last 747SP flight because of the sinus problem.
ISTR FL 450 was quite a long section of the cruise altitude. Then Concorde's FL590/600 and in high pressure/normal humidity one stepped out feeling GREAT!!!!
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Stationair8 Who else flew the SP
South African Airways had several and I remember being on the inaugural flight (as SLF) from Cape Town to London in the "Matroosberg". Probably 1978
On the right hand bulkhead as one entered the aircraft was a plaque commemorating the delivery flight Seattle to Cape Town non-stop.
It was intended to avoid the stop in Sal Island for the SA to Europe Routes.
South African Airways had several and I remember being on the inaugural flight (as SLF) from Cape Town to London in the "Matroosberg". Probably 1978
On the right hand bulkhead as one entered the aircraft was a plaque commemorating the delivery flight Seattle to Cape Town non-stop.
It was intended to avoid the stop in Sal Island for the SA to Europe Routes.