"Dataplate" Spitfire restorations?
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"Dataplate" Spitfire restorations?
I'm writing a brief article for an American aviation magazine about the recent recovery of a Spitfire IXb from tidal mudflats in Normandy, flown by RAAF pilot Henry Lacy Smith.
The people who recovered the wreckage and apparently now own it run a World War II tourist museum in Normandy and have told me the airplane will remain there (and that Smith's remains will be buried in France rather than being returned to Australia, by the way).
Question: They have in hand the airplane's dataplate, serial number and all. I am assuming that there will be some serious attempts to buy this artifact if only because an apparently authentic Spitfire can be fabricated, and built from commercially available components, as long as the original dataplate exists. (The original wreckage, totally buried for 66 years in mud, does not look to me to be restorable, judging by photos, but what do I know?)
Am I correct in this supposition, or is it an exaggeration?
Two interesting things I've learned about this tragedy, in my research:
British newspaper reports about the recovery all identify the crash as having taken place in the Orne River, which is not really accurate: Smith ditched into shallow water in a tidal flat a couple of miles from the Orne. When the recovery took place, earlier this month, the airplane was dug free during low-tide periods and then attached to floats that lifted it at high tide. The wreckage and the floats were then swept several miles away by the outgoing tide, to the Orne, before recovery could proceed further.
Also, Smith apparently put his gear down for some reason, perhaps to wheel onto a landable pasture. This of course doomed him to the nose-first rollover and consequent trapping of the pilot in the cockpit when he actually had to land on the shallow water. I base this on the fact that apparently, locals have quietly known for years that the inverted airplane was there, because its wheels were visible just above the mud at low tide.
Anyway, my question is, "Can you build a Spitfire from a dataplate?" before we get inevitably involved in wheels-up-or-down arguments...
The people who recovered the wreckage and apparently now own it run a World War II tourist museum in Normandy and have told me the airplane will remain there (and that Smith's remains will be buried in France rather than being returned to Australia, by the way).
Question: They have in hand the airplane's dataplate, serial number and all. I am assuming that there will be some serious attempts to buy this artifact if only because an apparently authentic Spitfire can be fabricated, and built from commercially available components, as long as the original dataplate exists. (The original wreckage, totally buried for 66 years in mud, does not look to me to be restorable, judging by photos, but what do I know?)
Am I correct in this supposition, or is it an exaggeration?
Two interesting things I've learned about this tragedy, in my research:
British newspaper reports about the recovery all identify the crash as having taken place in the Orne River, which is not really accurate: Smith ditched into shallow water in a tidal flat a couple of miles from the Orne. When the recovery took place, earlier this month, the airplane was dug free during low-tide periods and then attached to floats that lifted it at high tide. The wreckage and the floats were then swept several miles away by the outgoing tide, to the Orne, before recovery could proceed further.
Also, Smith apparently put his gear down for some reason, perhaps to wheel onto a landable pasture. This of course doomed him to the nose-first rollover and consequent trapping of the pilot in the cockpit when he actually had to land on the shallow water. I base this on the fact that apparently, locals have quietly known for years that the inverted airplane was there, because its wheels were visible just above the mud at low tide.
Anyway, my question is, "Can you build a Spitfire from a dataplate?" before we get inevitably involved in wheels-up-or-down arguments...
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No mention of him putting the gear down from this report (National Archives of Australia).
"flying as No 1 with two accompanying aircraft, was detailed to patrol beaches in the Quistrehain area. The formation was over the Rebehomme area when No. 3 in the formation saw flak strike the Section Leader's aircraft in the belly either in the engine or just in front of the long range tank. The aircraft immediately lost speed and started to emit white fume trails. As the aircraft continued to lose height the pilot called on the radio telegraphy and said 'I am going to put this thing down in a field'. He continued to glide in a westerly direction to Quistrehain. Unfortunately, the aircraft struck water in a canal, skidded on the surface for a short period, and then nosed into the water, finally turning over comparatively slowly on its back, with the port wing half submerged in water and the remainder of the underside of the aircraft out water. So far as No 3 could observe... neither the hood nor the long range fuel tank were at any time jettisoned. No 2 and 3 continued to circle over the crashed aircraft at altitudes varying from 1,2000 to 1,500 feet.
It is deeply regretted that they did not observe any movement indicating that the pilot was getting out of the cockpit, nor did they see any persons approach the aircraft on the ground."
His service history can be seen here
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scrip....asp?B=5247700
"flying as No 1 with two accompanying aircraft, was detailed to patrol beaches in the Quistrehain area. The formation was over the Rebehomme area when No. 3 in the formation saw flak strike the Section Leader's aircraft in the belly either in the engine or just in front of the long range tank. The aircraft immediately lost speed and started to emit white fume trails. As the aircraft continued to lose height the pilot called on the radio telegraphy and said 'I am going to put this thing down in a field'. He continued to glide in a westerly direction to Quistrehain. Unfortunately, the aircraft struck water in a canal, skidded on the surface for a short period, and then nosed into the water, finally turning over comparatively slowly on its back, with the port wing half submerged in water and the remainder of the underside of the aircraft out water. So far as No 3 could observe... neither the hood nor the long range fuel tank were at any time jettisoned. No 2 and 3 continued to circle over the crashed aircraft at altitudes varying from 1,2000 to 1,500 feet.
It is deeply regretted that they did not observe any movement indicating that the pilot was getting out of the cockpit, nor did they see any persons approach the aircraft on the ground."
His service history can be seen here
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scrip....asp?B=5247700
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True, but this is a report from pilots who for a few minutes watched the aircraft, from above, in the comparative confusion of combat--no, not a dogfight, but still a stressful situation. What did they see and not see in those few minutes?
On the other hand, we have people in Normandy who for some years said, "Yes, we could see the wheels sticking up out of the mud at low tide." Hard to mistake wheels for anything else. I can understand the gear falling into an extended position somehow from a right-side-up airplane, but not from an inverted one.
I go with the locals.
On the other hand, we have people in Normandy who for some years said, "Yes, we could see the wheels sticking up out of the mud at low tide." Hard to mistake wheels for anything else. I can understand the gear falling into an extended position somehow from a right-side-up airplane, but not from an inverted one.
I go with the locals.
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I think restorers would normally claim to have at least some of the original airframe in the rebuild.
Peter Cazenove's Spitfire 1 which was landed wheels up on the beach at Calais in 1940 and recovered from the sands in 1980, is nearing the end of its rebuild to fly; the hulk looked reasonably complete at recovery and is presumably donating at least something to the finshed restoration. There are, I think, three other MK1s currently under rebuild with provenance...
However, there are several other Spitfire crash rebuilds around that seem to be from considerably more serious impact with terra firma and I do wonder just how much will be original.
Peter Arnold is the man to talk to; he does occasionally post on here, but you could probably contact him via the Flypast site - he is "PeterA" on there.
Peter Cazenove's Spitfire 1 which was landed wheels up on the beach at Calais in 1940 and recovered from the sands in 1980, is nearing the end of its rebuild to fly; the hulk looked reasonably complete at recovery and is presumably donating at least something to the finshed restoration. There are, I think, three other MK1s currently under rebuild with provenance...
However, there are several other Spitfire crash rebuilds around that seem to be from considerably more serious impact with terra firma and I do wonder just how much will be original.
Peter Arnold is the man to talk to; he does occasionally post on here, but you could probably contact him via the Flypast site - he is "PeterA" on there.
I understand that firms like RR are reluctant to manufacture new parts for 60/70 year old engines because of the danger of being sued in the event of an accident.
Just suppose a manufacturer in a country with a relaxed attitude to copyright started producing oddly familar looking V12s and radials that could be bolted onto Spitfires, F4's etc. Or just new replacement parts that would fit elderly engines.
Would the original manufacturer.
A) Try to sue for breach of copyright to get the manufacturer closed down.
or
B) Refuse to acknowledge that the copy was built to their design in order to protect themselves from being sued if one caused an accident.
Just suppose a manufacturer in a country with a relaxed attitude to copyright started producing oddly familar looking V12s and radials that could be bolted onto Spitfires, F4's etc. Or just new replacement parts that would fit elderly engines.
Would the original manufacturer.
A) Try to sue for breach of copyright to get the manufacturer closed down.
or
B) Refuse to acknowledge that the copy was built to their design in order to protect themselves from being sued if one caused an accident.
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When I was putting together the last Caz Caswell Album and looking at the history of each aircraft, I was surprised that so many when originally restored had a high proportion of Original Components. But also came to the conclusion that over time a Spitfire is like an sophisticated version of 'Grandfathers Axe' My Dad replaced the Handle and I replaced the Blade, but it is still Grandfathers Axe.
The world can never have enough Restored Spitfires.
The world can never have enough Restored Spitfires.
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If you have the data plate and the drawings you can rebuild an aircraft, but it needs to be worth the cost and effort of doing so. Arguably, a new Spitfire would be worth building. As to engines, the CAA recently issued an AD on the Rolls Royce Merlin. There's quite a few of them around and there's at least one firm that specialises in overhauling them using the OHM and manufacturing new parts as required. Then there's the Packard versions...
"...he is "PeterA" on there."
He's "PeterA" on WIX, "Mark12" on Flypast.
You could search the Flypast forum for dataplate restorations, there are enough threads to send you cross-eyed.
He's "PeterA" on WIX, "Mark12" on Flypast.
You could search the Flypast forum for dataplate restorations, there are enough threads to send you cross-eyed.
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Smith apparently put his gear down for some reason, perhaps to wheel onto a landable pasture. This of course doomed him to the nose-first rollover and consequent trapping of the pilot in the cockpit when he actually had to land on the shallow water. I base this on the fact that apparently, locals have quietly known for years that the inverted airplane was there, because its wheels were visible just above the mud at low tide.
Let us know what your French contact has to say Stephan.
Forced landing
In the event of engine failure necessitating a forced landing:
(i) If a drop tank or bomb load is carried it should be jettisoned.
(ii) The fuel cut-off control (if fitted) should be pulled fully back.
(iii) The booster pump (if fitted) should be switched OFF.
(iv) The sliding hood should be opened and the cockpit door set on the catch (see para. 51).
(v) A speed of at least 150 m.p.h. (130 kts) I.A-S. should be maintained while manoeuvring with the undercarriage and flaps retracted.
(vij The flaps must not be lowered until it is certain that the selected landing area is within easy gliding reach.
(vii) The final straight approach should be made at the speeds given in para. 47.
(viii) If oil pressure is still available the glide can be lengthened considerably by pulling the propeller speed control (or override) lever fully back past the stop in the quadrant.
Ditching
(i) Whenever possible the aircraft should be abandoned by parachute rather than ditched, since the ditching qualities are known to be very poor.
(ii) When ditching is inevitable any external stores should be jettisoned (release will be more certain if the aircraft is gliding straight) and the following procedure observed:
(a) The cockpit hood should be jettisoned.
(b) The flaps should be lowered in order to reduce the touchdown speed as much as possible.
(c) The undercarriage should be kept retracted.
{d) The safety harness should be kept tightly adjusted and the R/T plug should be disconnected.
(e) The engine, if available, should be used to help make the touchdown in a taildown attitude at as low a forward speed as possible.
(f) Ditching should be along the swell, or into wind if the swell is not steep, but the pilot should be prepared for a tendency for the aircraft to dive when contact with the water is made.
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"...he is "PeterA" on there."
He's "PeterA" on WIX, "Mark12" on Flypast.
You could search the Flypast forum for dataplate restorations, there are enough threads to send you cross-eyed.
19th Nov 2010 15:35
...and I believe he is Mark22 on here.
He's "PeterA" on WIX, "Mark12" on Flypast.
You could search the Flypast forum for dataplate restorations, there are enough threads to send you cross-eyed.
19th Nov 2010 15:35
...and I believe he is Mark22 on here.
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Brigitte Colvin never answered my wheels-down query, and it's been awhile. I ended up using the phrase "it is possible..." in my article.
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DJ - There is no "copyright" on manufactured parts. "Registered Design" is available for component design and manufacture, as a similar form of protection for intellectual property rights, as copyright is protection for the written or verbal forms of original thoughts.
"Registered Design" protection extends from as little as 6 years to as long as 25 years, depending on the country.
Not every part or component of mechanical items, is subject to Registered Design; this depends on how the manufacturer feels about his particular item design being copied.
The other item affording intellectual protection to parts, or complete products design, is a patent. Patent life extends from 14 to 20 years, again depending on the country where the patent was lodged.
There is absolutely nothing to stop any aftermarket manufacturer producing brand new Merlin parts and components, after this length of time.
The only thing they can't do, is infer that the new part is made or approved by RR, or use RR logos or registered trademarks. Any patents or registered design rights, conferred on any Merlin component, or the Merlin design, have lapsed long ago.
"Registered Design" protection extends from as little as 6 years to as long as 25 years, depending on the country.
Not every part or component of mechanical items, is subject to Registered Design; this depends on how the manufacturer feels about his particular item design being copied.
The other item affording intellectual protection to parts, or complete products design, is a patent. Patent life extends from 14 to 20 years, again depending on the country where the patent was lodged.
There is absolutely nothing to stop any aftermarket manufacturer producing brand new Merlin parts and components, after this length of time.
The only thing they can't do, is infer that the new part is made or approved by RR, or use RR logos or registered trademarks. Any patents or registered design rights, conferred on any Merlin component, or the Merlin design, have lapsed long ago.
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Thanks for the feedback Stephan. Any idea where he actually ditched? Looked at Google earth and the only possible canal I can see is some 300+ feet wide. Was in the area a month ago, drove across the Pegasus bridge a few miles upstream. Would have been nice to know at the time, as part of our visit to the Normandy beaches.
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He ditched just off the village of Salonelles. The confusion about his reported ditching "in the Orne" arose because what actually happened was that the French recoverers apparently dug the airplane free of the mud in its ditching location, then attached flotation bags to it to lift it free when the tide came in. When the tide did come in that night, it indeed floated free but was also carried a considerable distance away, into the Orne, I guess as the tide went back out.
So the actual "recovery" took place, the next day, at a location that wasn't the ditching spot.
So the actual "recovery" took place, the next day, at a location that wasn't the ditching spot.
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Spitfire Australia-bound following quarrel
Spitfire Australia-bound following quarrel
A quarrel over the fighter plane of an Australian World War II pilot turned bitter this week after French police forced its discoverer to hand it over.
French war museum owner Fabrice Corbin was threatened with 48 hours in jail before agreeing to turn over the Spitfire that was sitting in the courtyard of his house in Normandy in northern France.
Mr Corbin and his family and friends dug the plane out of an estuary in Ouistreham last November and he had initially promised to hand over Mr Smith's remains and plane for free to the Australian people.
The plane was that of Australian Flight Lieutenant Henry `Lacy' Smith, the Sydney pilot gunned down in action on June 11, 1944, just five days after the D-Day landings.
Mr Smith had attempted to land in a field but his plane ended up plunging deep into the mud of the waterway only to be discovered two thirds of a century later.
Being a British plane, it was initially offered to the United Kingdom before French authorities asked their Australian counterparts if they were interested in the damaged aircraft.
They were.
Now three months after Mr Corbin's discovery, there has been a massive falling out between him and local authorities.
The irate Frenchman said he felt like he has been treated like a grave robber while an official from France's Ministry of Culture said the owner of the Grand Bunker Museum had asked for compensation for the costs of extracting the plane.
"After what happened, I think I should have not done it, I should have left the pilot rotten in the cockpit," Mr Corbin said this week via an interpreter.
"I respect the Australian people, but not the Australian bureaucrats."
Mr Smith's remains were handed over in November and he is to be buried with full military honours at a Commonwealth War Graves cemetery at Ranville on April 19.
Mr Corbin said he was never informed about the ceremony and is devastated about his experience.
"Even if the Australians invite me to come, I would not come," he said.
However French authorities paint a very different picture of his behaviour.
Olivia Hulot, an archaeologist responsible for the North Sea and English Channel within the French Ministry of Culture, said that Mr Corbin had forced the department's hand.
"Since November the aircraft has been in the garden ... it was necessary to get the aircraft for conservation reasons," she told AAP.
" ... we want the restoration of artefacts.
"I wanted to speak to Fabrice but he told me he doesn't want to see me and he told me the property was his and he would like some money for pulling the aircraft out of the water."
Ms Hulot said that Mr Corbin had been involved in 18 excavations in the area, which is littered with war-time artefacts.
She said the authorities had to step in as the plane desperately needed to be submerged to slow down the rate of decay.
Besides solving a 66-year mystery surrounding the final resting place of Mr Smith, part of the attraction of the find was the quality of the condition of the Spitfire - the plane renowned for its role in the defeat of the Nazis.
Ms Hulot suggested there had been a "commercial aspect" to Mr Corbin's behaviour.
"The last solution was to get legal help from the authorities," she said.
"We don't like to do all this ... we are archaeologists."
A media conference is due to be held on Thursday morning in the French regional capital of Caen regarding the transfer of the plane into Australian hands.
Defence Attache at the Australian Embassy in Paris, Mark Green, said: "The RAAF is currently investigating options for potential recovery of the aircraft to Australia."
The Royal Australian Air Force's Museum at Point Cook in Victoria is the Spitfire's most likely destination.
Spitfire Australia-bound following quarrel
A quarrel over the fighter plane of an Australian World War II pilot turned bitter this week after French police forced its discoverer to hand it over.
French war museum owner Fabrice Corbin was threatened with 48 hours in jail before agreeing to turn over the Spitfire that was sitting in the courtyard of his house in Normandy in northern France.
Mr Corbin and his family and friends dug the plane out of an estuary in Ouistreham last November and he had initially promised to hand over Mr Smith's remains and plane for free to the Australian people.
The plane was that of Australian Flight Lieutenant Henry `Lacy' Smith, the Sydney pilot gunned down in action on June 11, 1944, just five days after the D-Day landings.
Mr Smith had attempted to land in a field but his plane ended up plunging deep into the mud of the waterway only to be discovered two thirds of a century later.
Being a British plane, it was initially offered to the United Kingdom before French authorities asked their Australian counterparts if they were interested in the damaged aircraft.
They were.
Now three months after Mr Corbin's discovery, there has been a massive falling out between him and local authorities.
The irate Frenchman said he felt like he has been treated like a grave robber while an official from France's Ministry of Culture said the owner of the Grand Bunker Museum had asked for compensation for the costs of extracting the plane.
"After what happened, I think I should have not done it, I should have left the pilot rotten in the cockpit," Mr Corbin said this week via an interpreter.
"I respect the Australian people, but not the Australian bureaucrats."
Mr Smith's remains were handed over in November and he is to be buried with full military honours at a Commonwealth War Graves cemetery at Ranville on April 19.
Mr Corbin said he was never informed about the ceremony and is devastated about his experience.
"Even if the Australians invite me to come, I would not come," he said.
However French authorities paint a very different picture of his behaviour.
Olivia Hulot, an archaeologist responsible for the North Sea and English Channel within the French Ministry of Culture, said that Mr Corbin had forced the department's hand.
"Since November the aircraft has been in the garden ... it was necessary to get the aircraft for conservation reasons," she told AAP.
" ... we want the restoration of artefacts.
"I wanted to speak to Fabrice but he told me he doesn't want to see me and he told me the property was his and he would like some money for pulling the aircraft out of the water."
Ms Hulot said that Mr Corbin had been involved in 18 excavations in the area, which is littered with war-time artefacts.
She said the authorities had to step in as the plane desperately needed to be submerged to slow down the rate of decay.
Besides solving a 66-year mystery surrounding the final resting place of Mr Smith, part of the attraction of the find was the quality of the condition of the Spitfire - the plane renowned for its role in the defeat of the Nazis.
Ms Hulot suggested there had been a "commercial aspect" to Mr Corbin's behaviour.
"The last solution was to get legal help from the authorities," she said.
"We don't like to do all this ... we are archaeologists."
A media conference is due to be held on Thursday morning in the French regional capital of Caen regarding the transfer of the plane into Australian hands.
Defence Attache at the Australian Embassy in Paris, Mark Green, said: "The RAAF is currently investigating options for potential recovery of the aircraft to Australia."
The Royal Australian Air Force's Museum at Point Cook in Victoria is the Spitfire's most likely destination.
