Gnats
Here’s one with pointy bits and ‘go-faster’ stripes
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Southern Turkey
Age: 82
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
grOwler
What the man said was 20 ft too far apart, and I agree. Perhaps they're trying to make a 2-ship formation look bigger (understandable), but they're definitely 20 ft further apart than when I flew them in formation - and that was as a trainee at Valley. Nevertheless it's great to see them flying and brought back happy memories.
20 feet apart :-( easy to say when ur not flying the jet methinks.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bristol
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How many Hobson motor runaways were there? I did a BOI on a Kemble Gnat in about 1968 that locked up at full nose down, but it was the only one I ever heard of. Interesting technical fault.
Dick
Dick
I bet we lost more aeroplanes and, sadly, pilots pracising for hydraulic failure that we ever had real hydraulic failures, a bit like the Canberra assymetric. Indeed, I recall (dimly these days) that after a number of fatal accidents in early 1966, some at least attributed to PFLs in manual, a Flying Order was issued to the effect that in the event of engine failure, solo students were to eject; instructors were to use their discretion and then eject.
Last edited by Wander00; 25th Sep 2010 at 18:01.
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,373
Received 120 Likes
on
87 Posts
The Hobson unit was a truly memorable ( for many reasons ) bit of kit. Those who flew the aircraft encountered one side and can thus comment accordingly.
From the engineering perspective, it was a nightmare to remove / install and subsequently rig. There were some serious problems as I recall with the leak rates and the measurement of these rates. The aileron PCU's were not much better either in terms of leaks although for their size and that of the aileron (and aileron response time) they operated, this comes as no real surprise with the work loads induced.
I could be wrong, only ever having worked on Lightnings in a Cat 3 condition, but didn't this also have a Hobson unit fitted, albeit a larger version.
From the engineering perspective, it was a nightmare to remove / install and subsequently rig. There were some serious problems as I recall with the leak rates and the measurement of these rates. The aileron PCU's were not much better either in terms of leaks although for their size and that of the aileron (and aileron response time) they operated, this comes as no real surprise with the work loads induced.
I could be wrong, only ever having worked on Lightnings in a Cat 3 condition, but didn't this also have a Hobson unit fitted, albeit a larger version.
How many Hobson motor runaways were there?
I watched the result of one at Valley whilst strapped into a shinny fighter during a Lightning MPC.
On seeing two parachutes, the first thought was what a silly place to practice parachuting – over an active airfield.
The Gnat with the tail fully nose-up and at full power, was then seen circling the airfield in a super-stall/wing rocking manoeuvre, and continued to do so for some time.
‘Scruph’ Oliver in his adjacent armed Lightning, declared that he had the warhead round, so let’s go and get it. The gnat crashed gracefully about 200m away on the sea shore behind MPC before we had any decision.
A somewhat disconcerting situation – where was the aircraft going to fall – which way do you run.
On seeing two parachutes, the first thought was what a silly place to practice parachuting – over an active airfield.
The Gnat with the tail fully nose-up and at full power, was then seen circling the airfield in a super-stall/wing rocking manoeuvre, and continued to do so for some time.
‘Scruph’ Oliver in his adjacent armed Lightning, declared that he had the warhead round, so let’s go and get it. The gnat crashed gracefully about 200m away on the sea shore behind MPC before we had any decision.
A somewhat disconcerting situation – where was the aircraft going to fall – which way do you run.
Gamekeeper
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: South East
Age: 61
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok you "techies" - what's the story of increasing the roll rate by some "twiddling" of the engineering
Hopefully without the pilot taking the fin off in the resultant effect
Hopefully without the pilot taking the fin off in the resultant effect
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,373
Received 120 Likes
on
87 Posts
Frankly, I would leave the roll rate alone.
As I recall, the fin seperation is precisely what did happen.. sadly... and resulted in a fleet grounding for a while. One of the proposed solutions at the time was to use some of the spare rear fuse shells ( still in grey paint and straight from the manufacturer having been kept in storage at Kemble ) but this was discounted due to the extensive mod. state upgrade required.
What effect this grounding had on the operational flying of the aircraft thereafter, the pilots on here will be able to answer, but "twiddling" for twiddlings sake...... to ring a minimal increase in the roll rate would "not be a good idea"....cough !
I am just wondering if we have met PFR, quite recently in fact, in the Midlands perhaps....if you ever flew at Four C's at Syerston that is ?
As I recall, the fin seperation is precisely what did happen.. sadly... and resulted in a fleet grounding for a while. One of the proposed solutions at the time was to use some of the spare rear fuse shells ( still in grey paint and straight from the manufacturer having been kept in storage at Kemble ) but this was discounted due to the extensive mod. state upgrade required.
What effect this grounding had on the operational flying of the aircraft thereafter, the pilots on here will be able to answer, but "twiddling" for twiddlings sake...... to ring a minimal increase in the roll rate would "not be a good idea"....cough !
I am just wondering if we have met PFR, quite recently in fact, in the Midlands perhaps....if you ever flew at Four C's at Syerston that is ?
My memory fades in places these days - apologies.
Didn't the Gnat have restrictors fitted to limit aileron travel? The roll rate was excellent even with them. I remember something about the little jet suffering roll/yaw coupling at high incidence.
Also I think the 'Arrers had the restrictors removed.
I am happy to be corrected, which BOAC might care to do.
A great intro' to the Frightening F3 though - same OR946 instrument presentation, but that's another war story! Sorry, I have to go and find some more tissues.....
Didn't the Gnat have restrictors fitted to limit aileron travel? The roll rate was excellent even with them. I remember something about the little jet suffering roll/yaw coupling at high incidence.
Also I think the 'Arrers had the restrictors removed.
I am happy to be corrected, which BOAC might care to do.
A great intro' to the Frightening F3 though - same OR946 instrument presentation, but that's another war story! Sorry, I have to go and find some more tissues.....
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can do no better than point you to the closed thread http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...rate-fuse.html where northwing's post covers the Fuse 13 story well and there is more on the control system of that delightful little ship.
Gamekeeper
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: South East
Age: 61
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks BOAC, thought there was something - I'll have a good read
...and Lightning Mate yes I was aware that the a/c had instrumentaion as a lead to "Frightning's", so go on tell all - that's what the threads all about
Sorry Krystal n chips not me Chief, never flew Four C's or at Syerston for that matter - not the flying type - more's the pity
and anybody care to post that classic "snap" of the "Master" collecting daisy's in a Gnat Flying Lawyer you're pretty apt at photos of Mr Hanna - you got access to copy you could post
...and Lightning Mate yes I was aware that the a/c had instrumentaion as a lead to "Frightning's", so go on tell all - that's what the threads all about
Sorry Krystal n chips not me Chief, never flew Four C's or at Syerston for that matter - not the flying type - more's the pity
and anybody care to post that classic "snap" of the "Master" collecting daisy's in a Gnat
Flying Lawyer you're pretty apt at photos of Mr Hanna - you got access to copy you could post
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...rate-fuse.html Post 187 for starters?
...and Lightning Mate yes I was aware that the a/c had instrumentaion as a lead to "Frightning's", so go on tell all - that's what the threads all about
So there I was, in full burner, going very very well and...................
.....at M1.6 and accelerating the Mach strip speed was going left and suddenly was all covered in mildew and 'orrible black stuff.
Hadn't seen the light of day for quite a while obviously!
Safety Pee -
Yes, I watched that one as well!!
We were getting some studes ready for wet winching when we heard the first seat go and came out to see the second one take to the air. Memory says that there was some sort of pitch restriction which necessitated the 'pneumatic exit'. Once both bods had left the aircraft stabilised itself and trolled around in circles before arriving relatively level in the surf at Trearddur Bay. Much good fortune since it alighted between two groups of swimmer/surfers!!
Was also present when the No 3(?) in a formation takeoff came back down on the runway sans wheels and sped along trailing fuel from split slipper tanks.This trail ignited and followed the aircraft until it came to rest on the peri track just behind a queue of traffic at the runway crossing. Single occupant legged it at speed and the 22 Whirlwind arrived overhead just as the rear seat spontaneously shot heavenwards! Excellent demonstration of Whirlwind manoeuvrabilty and control reaction times.
Yes, I watched that one as well!!
We were getting some studes ready for wet winching when we heard the first seat go and came out to see the second one take to the air. Memory says that there was some sort of pitch restriction which necessitated the 'pneumatic exit'. Once both bods had left the aircraft stabilised itself and trolled around in circles before arriving relatively level in the surf at Trearddur Bay. Much good fortune since it alighted between two groups of swimmer/surfers!!Was also present when the No 3(?) in a formation takeoff came back down on the runway sans wheels and sped along trailing fuel from split slipper tanks.This trail ignited and followed the aircraft until it came to rest on the peri track just behind a queue of traffic at the runway crossing.
Single occupant legged it at speed and the 22 Whirlwind arrived overhead just as the rear seat spontaneously shot heavenwards! Excellent demonstration of Whirlwind manoeuvrabilty and control reaction times.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
anybody care to post that classic "snap" of the "Master" collecting daisies in a Gnat
Flying Lawyer .......... you got access to copy you could post
Flying Lawyer .......... you got access to copy you could post
Here are a few others from Ray Hanna's years as Leader .....
1966
1967
1968
1969
.