Southampton Water Seaplanes
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Southampton Water Seaplanes
Are there any ancients on here who recall anything about the Southampton Water seaplane terminals please? My wife and I took a boat cruise last year around Southampton Water and we were shown the derelict mooring places for seaplanes. On one was what looked like a small version of a wartime control tower. This got me thinking... donkeys years ago I had the first issue of the General Aviation Flight guide - like a sawn off Air Pilot. Now I'm fairly sure that in the COM section, Southampton Water was listed with the callsign "Southampton Pinnace". Can anyone confirm this please?
Please Bren, flying boats not seaplanes !
My parents often took us to Southsea during the '50s, and sometimes we would take the boat trip up Southampton Water. I recall that during our visit in the summer of '56, there was an 'American' flying boat moored unusually near the 'Royal' docks ie on the east side, but prior to this, I recall several visits and seeing several 'boats moored on the west side presumably at Hythe. Last time I visited the area was by road in about '87, when the old BOAC hangar and slipway at Hythe had a sign up saying something about an american military unit being based there. I don't recall a 'tower, but then I wasn't looking for one!
Of course, during every seaborne visit, the Princess 'boats were visible at Calshot.
My parents often took us to Southsea during the '50s, and sometimes we would take the boat trip up Southampton Water. I recall that during our visit in the summer of '56, there was an 'American' flying boat moored unusually near the 'Royal' docks ie on the east side, but prior to this, I recall several visits and seeing several 'boats moored on the west side presumably at Hythe. Last time I visited the area was by road in about '87, when the old BOAC hangar and slipway at Hythe had a sign up saying something about an american military unit being based there. I don't recall a 'tower, but then I wasn't looking for one!
Of course, during every seaborne visit, the Princess 'boats were visible at Calshot.
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Sorry, T, will remember in future! Reason is I have uploaded a piccy I took to Geograph: Southampton Water - Flying Boat Terminal:: OS grid SU4210 :: Geograph Britain and Ireland - photograph every grid square!
You'll see that the "tower" isn't as we know it! Ruth and I often visit Hythe to watch the liners depart.
You'll see that the "tower" isn't as we know it! Ruth and I often visit Hythe to watch the liners depart.
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Slight subject slip.
In 1949, I was a small child accompanying my parents on the troopship 'Empire Ken' to Mombassa.
As we sailed down Southampton Water, a line of about 10 Sunderlands were taxying past. It was the first time I'd seen a flying boat, military or otherwise, but I thought that they did all of their journeys on the sea. I had no idea that they could actually fly!
In 1949, I was a small child accompanying my parents on the troopship 'Empire Ken' to Mombassa.
As we sailed down Southampton Water, a line of about 10 Sunderlands were taxying past. It was the first time I'd seen a flying boat, military or otherwise, but I thought that they did all of their journeys on the sea. I had no idea that they could actually fly!
HD: the positioon of the 'tower' as marked on your map puts it close to the position where I must have seen the 'boat' in '56, whereas I would have thought any 'control' facility would be about 2 miles south at Hythe, mind you I do remember having an RAF chart dated about 1960 (lost long ago regrettably) which showed more than one 'water' airport on Southampton Water (it also showed a land airfield at Ryde on the I.O.W.)
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I did a good search on Google and it revealed several "bases" - four I believe - where flying boats were based. All this started because I'm sure that the tour boat skipper said something about "control cabin", or similar. I agree that one would expect control to be exercised from somewhere with a better view of Southampton Water. Maybe all this will jog some memories on here.
When you said 'an unusual tower' I thought you meant one similar to the one at Felixstowe (early WW2 3-box type) pictured in one of the 'Action Stations' books.
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I suppose I am ancient! As I can recall the various places that Imperial Airways,Supermarine and RAF flew from.
The old man flew with IA and it was from Berth 101 and off the Royal Pier. The facility at Hythe was the maintenance facility.Supermarine from Woolston on the River Itchen.Where the Spitfire was designed and initially manufactured, RAF Calshot,my old "Alma Mater".Opposite between Hamble and Netley Follands had a slipway and serviced flying boats. Last but not least Saunders Roe at Cowes.Strictly not Southampton Water,they used RAF Calshot Tower.for takeoff and alighting.Also the Navy had a slip at Lee on Solent HMS Daedelous[spelling!] Hope that helps
I believe there was some sort of control from Dockhead,which is at the confluence of the Rivers Test and Itchen
The old man flew with IA and it was from Berth 101 and off the Royal Pier. The facility at Hythe was the maintenance facility.Supermarine from Woolston on the River Itchen.Where the Spitfire was designed and initially manufactured, RAF Calshot,my old "Alma Mater".Opposite between Hamble and Netley Follands had a slipway and serviced flying boats. Last but not least Saunders Roe at Cowes.Strictly not Southampton Water,they used RAF Calshot Tower.for takeoff and alighting.Also the Navy had a slip at Lee on Solent HMS Daedelous[spelling!] Hope that helps
I believe there was some sort of control from Dockhead,which is at the confluence of the Rivers Test and Itchen
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Ruth and I often visit Hythe to watch the liners depart.
Do you mean Cruise Ship?
chevvron started it....
A Liner hasn't departed Southampton since almost as long ago as the last flying boat.
Sir George Cayley
A couple of shots of Auster J/5g Autocar G-AMZV taking off from mud-flats at Ryde when testing Saunders-Roe hydro-skis. Not sure if Ryde mud-flats = Ryde aerodrome, but perhaps there's enough detail to identify its location.
Photos show Auster J/5g Autocar G-AMZV fitted with Saunders-Roe hydro-skis taking off from mud-flats at Ryde (Isle of Wight). Geoff Tyson was the pilot.
Saunders-Roe's works at East Cowes were five miles along the north coast of the Isle of Wight and I can only assume the nearest suitable mud-flats for tests were at Ryde, which is why the tests were done there.
The National Archives at Kew has a copy of an Auster Aircraft Company file held in the Leicestershire, Leicester and Rutland Record Office describing the trials of the hydro-skis and similar unusual undercarriage attachments made by Saunders-Roe as fitted to Auster aircraft.
A report quotes: "On water, buoyancy is achieved by lift from the pressure on the skis when planing. This is achieved at “an acceptable taxiing speed,” and a distance of only three to four times the Auster’s own length is all that is needed to reach a safe enough speed for entering the water. Successful take-offs have been made starting from sand, shingle and short concrete slipways—the remainder of the run to become airborne being on the surface of the water. During early low-speed trials on water, buoyancy-tanks were fitted under the wing-tips as a precautionary measure, but were soon removed."
Auster Autocar G-AMZV came to a tragic end in August 1966 when it crashed during a pleasure flight at Weston-super-Mare killing the pilot and three passengers.
I remember the aerodrome at Ryde but have yet to find any references.
Photos show Auster J/5g Autocar G-AMZV fitted with Saunders-Roe hydro-skis taking off from mud-flats at Ryde (Isle of Wight). Geoff Tyson was the pilot.
Saunders-Roe's works at East Cowes were five miles along the north coast of the Isle of Wight and I can only assume the nearest suitable mud-flats for tests were at Ryde, which is why the tests were done there.
The National Archives at Kew has a copy of an Auster Aircraft Company file held in the Leicestershire, Leicester and Rutland Record Office describing the trials of the hydro-skis and similar unusual undercarriage attachments made by Saunders-Roe as fitted to Auster aircraft.
A report quotes: "On water, buoyancy is achieved by lift from the pressure on the skis when planing. This is achieved at “an acceptable taxiing speed,” and a distance of only three to four times the Auster’s own length is all that is needed to reach a safe enough speed for entering the water. Successful take-offs have been made starting from sand, shingle and short concrete slipways—the remainder of the run to become airborne being on the surface of the water. During early low-speed trials on water, buoyancy-tanks were fitted under the wing-tips as a precautionary measure, but were soon removed."
Auster Autocar G-AMZV came to a tragic end in August 1966 when it crashed during a pleasure flight at Weston-super-Mare killing the pilot and three passengers.
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...
Dont know if this helps -
Regarding flying boat movements from Southampton - Imperial Airways had their terminal bldg at an area described as 'Berth 108 New Docks' during
pre-war years - later moving to 'Berth 50 Old Docks'. - where they continued operations up to 1950 - Thereafter Aquila Airways continued
f/b operations until 1958.
Slightly offthread - in 1937/ 8 Shorts were operating their Short Mayo composite flying boat service on the River Medway at Rochester. This was an air mail service to the USA whereby a float plane was mounted piggy back style onto another Short flying boat - due to limitations
of sufficient fuel - with a/c seperation somewhere off Ireland.
...
Dont know if this helps -
Regarding flying boat movements from Southampton - Imperial Airways had their terminal bldg at an area described as 'Berth 108 New Docks' during
pre-war years - later moving to 'Berth 50 Old Docks'. - where they continued operations up to 1950 - Thereafter Aquila Airways continued
f/b operations until 1958.
Slightly offthread - in 1937/ 8 Shorts were operating their Short Mayo composite flying boat service on the River Medway at Rochester. This was an air mail service to the USA whereby a float plane was mounted piggy back style onto another Short flying boat - due to limitations
of sufficient fuel - with a/c seperation somewhere off Ireland.
...
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HD.
Do you know Freddy Frost ? Ex 'D' Watch LATCC amongst other places.
Now at Lasham, I believe he was once an ATCO at Souhampton Water or it might have been Poole Harbor.
Very charming and interesting man. Talkdownman should be able to put you in touch with him if you want info.
C.
Do you know Freddy Frost ? Ex 'D' Watch LATCC amongst other places.
Now at Lasham, I believe he was once an ATCO at Souhampton Water or it might have been Poole Harbor.
Very charming and interesting man. Talkdownman should be able to put you in touch with him if you want info.
C.
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OK C, thanks for that. I've not met FF, but heard many stories about him from Les West! I'll contact Malcy and see if he can pick Freddy's brain.
Cheers Bren
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Good Morning Mr Grubby, HD et al,
It wasn't FF, it was Mr. D.B.Middleton pre-LATCC 'A' Watch. DBM was certainly at Poole Harbour (GDCB) in '47 / '48 doing 'Poole Pinnace' and possibly Southampton Water doing 'Southampton Pinnace' too. He was my previous SATCO and used to tell me some interesting stories about laying out the markers and talking them down from the pinnace in marginal weather....! Sadly he is no longer with us to confirm. FF (much younger - but probably now the oldest valid ATCO...) was at 'Eastleigh' mid-fifties and 'coordinated' with the Southampton flying boat Watch Office (telegram...?
) I will ask FF what he knows.
TDM
It wasn't FF, it was Mr. D.B.Middleton pre-LATCC 'A' Watch. DBM was certainly at Poole Harbour (GDCB) in '47 / '48 doing 'Poole Pinnace' and possibly Southampton Water doing 'Southampton Pinnace' too. He was my previous SATCO and used to tell me some interesting stories about laying out the markers and talking them down from the pinnace in marginal weather....! Sadly he is no longer with us to confirm. FF (much younger - but probably now the oldest valid ATCO...) was at 'Eastleigh' mid-fifties and 'coordinated' with the Southampton flying boat Watch Office (telegram...?
) I will ask FF what he knows.TDM
Dont know if this helps -
Regarding flying boat movements from Southampton - Imperial Airways had their terminal bldg at an area described as 'Berth 108 New Docks' during
pre-war years - later moving to 'Berth 50 Old Docks'. - where they continued operations up to 1950 - Thereafter Aquila Airways continued
f/b operations until 1958.
Regarding flying boat movements from Southampton - Imperial Airways had their terminal bldg at an area described as 'Berth 108 New Docks' during
pre-war years - later moving to 'Berth 50 Old Docks'. - where they continued operations up to 1950 - Thereafter Aquila Airways continued
f/b operations until 1958.
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TDM.
Good morning Sir.
Yes, DBM I never met him but have heard a lot about him.
So he was at Poole Harbour. Was that before or after the Japs bombed it ???
Clint.
Good morning Sir.
Yes, DBM I never met him but have heard a lot about him.
So he was at Poole Harbour. Was that before or after the Japs bombed it ???
Clint.