Belvedere
To add a little bit more; the flying controls power units were mounted at the front cockpit area and then linked by cables to the rear rotor- I think the cause of the Borneo fatality was the cables came off the rollers,and the loss in tension caused the rear rotor to become uncontrollable.
A ladder was used to get into the cockpits and I seem to recall the seats had limited f/a adjustment only.
The aircraft could only be refuelled engines stopped ,as the fuel fillers were next to the engine exhausts,up top,so one started a task with a lot of fuel and then increased the pax/frt as fuel was burned,unlike on WWs,we could take 10 troops, enough fuel for a short 10-15 min round trip and then another `splash and dash`, not quite F1, but about 2- 3 mins to onload troops/fuel.One WW could beat a Belvedere on a troop-lift,until he was well down on fuel,as the troops had to climb up a ladder to get into the cabin. The Bevelgear could go like a train, about 120-130 kts,but stopping/slowing down took a bit of time/distance; so it`s best use was carrying underslung loads, 105 howitzers+ammo into LZs; I also managed to supply 66Sdn with 3 Whirlwinds in various states of unserviceability to take back for repair.
I`m also sure a BVG had a syncho shaft failure at Seletar,but it was landed safely,as the rotors are well spaced vertically,have little overlap,and don`t intermesh when stopped,but someone will doubtless correct me.
It could also be run-up to max power on the ground,not tied-down,by fitting small drogue -chutes to the blades.(mini wind-socks).
A few names on 66, Bunny Austin,Bill Russell, Dennis Southern,John ZZ(mitrwicz),John Charlesworth,and Ray Lawrence,he of fame of getting airborne in his homebuilt aeroplane in Kuching..at best guess about 1 foot altitude,but then 30*C+ with 90% humidity , the m/c twin was hard pushed against the drag of Ray`s moustache! And there`s more to tell, another time...
A ladder was used to get into the cockpits and I seem to recall the seats had limited f/a adjustment only.
The aircraft could only be refuelled engines stopped ,as the fuel fillers were next to the engine exhausts,up top,so one started a task with a lot of fuel and then increased the pax/frt as fuel was burned,unlike on WWs,we could take 10 troops, enough fuel for a short 10-15 min round trip and then another `splash and dash`, not quite F1, but about 2- 3 mins to onload troops/fuel.One WW could beat a Belvedere on a troop-lift,until he was well down on fuel,as the troops had to climb up a ladder to get into the cabin. The Bevelgear could go like a train, about 120-130 kts,but stopping/slowing down took a bit of time/distance; so it`s best use was carrying underslung loads, 105 howitzers+ammo into LZs; I also managed to supply 66Sdn with 3 Whirlwinds in various states of unserviceability to take back for repair.
I`m also sure a BVG had a syncho shaft failure at Seletar,but it was landed safely,as the rotors are well spaced vertically,have little overlap,and don`t intermesh when stopped,but someone will doubtless correct me.
It could also be run-up to max power on the ground,not tied-down,by fitting small drogue -chutes to the blades.(mini wind-socks).
A few names on 66, Bunny Austin,Bill Russell, Dennis Southern,John ZZ(mitrwicz),John Charlesworth,and Ray Lawrence,he of fame of getting airborne in his homebuilt aeroplane in Kuching..at best guess about 1 foot altitude,but then 30*C+ with 90% humidity , the m/c twin was hard pushed against the drag of Ray`s moustache! And there`s more to tell, another time...
I have a cine film I took of the last Bevelgear fly past from the ground at Changi. As well as 209's Twin Pins farewell.
Apparantly one was a 'cut & shut' from two. The front being from the Gurkha helter skelter and the rear from an avpin fire. I watched the last one in the UK being airtested before dispatch to 66 in Singapore and it resided permantly in Seletar MU. When it was pulled put to be scrapped they found it had the same Serial as one of the squadron aircraft.
Apparantly one was a 'cut & shut' from two. The front being from the Gurkha helter skelter and the rear from an avpin fire. I watched the last one in the UK being airtested before dispatch to 66 in Singapore and it resided permantly in Seletar MU. When it was pulled put to be scrapped they found it had the same Serial as one of the squadron aircraft.
Ray Lawrence: he of the Big Green Arrow?
If so he used to have big a 3-D cardboard arrow which he would keep tucked under his arm as he lectured us on helicopter aerodynamics.
CG
If so he used to have big a 3-D cardboard arrow which he would keep tucked under his arm as he lectured us on helicopter aerodynamics.
CG
Avoid imitations
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I met John Dowling (of the Coventry Cathedral Spire fame) at Shawbury, many years ago. He told me about the AVPIN starts, one leg inside the cockpit, the other over the window sill.
I've mentioned this before on a previous thread. Ray Lawrence and I got on very well at Shawbury, we had similar engineering interests. He brought his scrapbook of "projects" to show me. What an amazing talent Ray had.
His own design, one-man helicopter was powered by a Triumph 500cc twin motorbike engine! In addition to that and his triplane, he designed and made a speed boat, a caravan, a hovercraft, a large radio controlled helicopter (well before they were available commercially, plus his own radio control gear), a reflecting telescope (hand made lenses) and a number of multi-cylinder model radial aircraft engines.
I've mentioned this before on a previous thread. Ray Lawrence and I got on very well at Shawbury, we had similar engineering interests. He brought his scrapbook of "projects" to show me. What an amazing talent Ray had.
His own design, one-man helicopter was powered by a Triumph 500cc twin motorbike engine! In addition to that and his triplane, he designed and made a speed boat, a caravan, a hovercraft, a large radio controlled helicopter (well before they were available commercially, plus his own radio control gear), a reflecting telescope (hand made lenses) and a number of multi-cylinder model radial aircraft engines.
Shy,I guess you`ve seen the pics of the Kuching Flyer,but you may not have seen the pic of Ray playing the string Bass...in the nude...!
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An excellent thread, and as 'Lyneham Lad' said in his post, there is more information on this love-it or hate-it helicopter in the 'Nostalgia' section.
'sycamore' A slight correction regarding the flight controls. Yes, the hydraulic servos were mounted below the cockpit but, IIRC, the motion to the front and rear rotors was by means of push-pull rods, not cables. Cables were only used in the yaw controls and connected the pedals to the (can't remember). In addition to the Borneo fatality, a yaw cable was also the cause of at least one fatal accident with a Khormaksar-based helicopter. On arrival there in 1965, I heard that it 'snapped'.
'sycamore' A slight correction regarding the flight controls. Yes, the hydraulic servos were mounted below the cockpit but, IIRC, the motion to the front and rear rotors was by means of push-pull rods, not cables. Cables were only used in the yaw controls and connected the pedals to the (can't remember). In addition to the Borneo fatality, a yaw cable was also the cause of at least one fatal accident with a Khormaksar-based helicopter. On arrival there in 1965, I heard that it 'snapped'.
I guess the US equivalent was the Vertol H-21 Shawnee. Seemed to be used in big numbers by many operators and was very relevant in early Vietnam days. The daddy of the H-46 and H-47....
Ray lawrence, still going strong, I believe. Did hear tales that when the T/R control cables were changed, they were put back on the shelf in the stores ('cos nobody had told them not to) and then reissued. Eventually the obvious happened!.. Charlie Golf - must have followed you around as I went to 230 (via 6mths in Belize) in '85 after stint on 33.
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Quote:
The late old 230 Sqn F/Sgt A****r M******* ...
I did not hear of Arthur's demise. Can you enlighten me? He was a good friend to me while I was on 230 in '77 to 81'.
Sorry for the threadcreep.
Phil
The late old 230 Sqn F/Sgt A****r M******* ...
I did not hear of Arthur's demise. Can you enlighten me? He was a good friend to me while I was on 230 in '77 to 81'.
Sorry for the threadcreep.
Phil
Phil, was told a while ago of his sad demise....... was one of lifes Gentlemen and nicknamed the first two Chinooks we got on the OCU, Flirty Gerty and Firey Fred.. will check my messages on another site and let you know more......
Gentleman Aviator
Ray Lawrence, still going strong, I believe.
I was on the Puma OCU in '75 (Crewman) - I seem to remember a Belvedere parked in the corner of 240's tin hangar?
Then on 33 (I was on 230) there was the immortal FS 'Guilthrax', shaky hands due to his time on Belvederes?!
Years later flying in Civvy Street with a fellow ex-RAF who's Dad sadly died in a Belvedere crash in Borneo.
Then on 33 (I was on 230) there was the immortal FS 'Guilthrax', shaky hands due to his time on Belvederes?!
Years later flying in Civvy Street with a fellow ex-RAF who's Dad sadly died in a Belvedere crash in Borneo.
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ewe.landerI was on the Puma OCU in '75 (Crewman) - I seem to remember a Belvedere parked in the corner of 240's tin hangar?
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Shy,I guess you`ve seen the pics of the Kuching Flyer,but you may not have seen the pic of Ray playing the string Bass...in the nude...!
Interesting thread.
My old man spent a bit of time in the jungle with the Belvedere, back in the 60's.
A few pictures he took whilst out in Borneo
No idea who the chap is, but I presume its the cockpit ladder in the background.
Re 'splash and dash' on the WW
My old man spent a bit of time in the jungle with the Belvedere, back in the 60's.
A few pictures he took whilst out in Borneo
No idea who the chap is, but I presume its the cockpit ladder in the background.
Re 'splash and dash' on the WW
ecb, I think the ladder is propped near the fuel filler cap ,near the exhausts ,and the lads are trying to get the Zwicky pump to start- rotors are stopped- the drums in the first picture should have been stood upright for at least 30 mins,so I guess it must have been a 110Sdn Det- slackers !!
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Belvederes And Her Crew
I give you
http://www.feaf-26sqdn-pix.co.uk/GalleryPage.php
not yet complete but a start at a pictorial history of our detachment.
let me know your thoughts.
regards Olly
http://www.feaf-26sqdn-pix.co.uk/GalleryPage.php
not yet complete but a start at a pictorial history of our detachment.
let me know your thoughts.
regards Olly
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Belvedere Blues - Avpin Start-ups
Charlie Golf:-
In the 60's in Aden, the Belvedere Sqn's offices were next to to my Shackleton Sqn's premises and the word then was if you heard a Belvedere starting up you watched closely because you would be a witness at Board of Enquiry rather than a member of the Board investigating the fire. We did fly in the Belvederes from time to time as waist gunners using GPMGs as they had no establishment for that role.
In the 60's in Aden, the Belvedere Sqn's offices were next to to my Shackleton Sqn's premises and the word then was if you heard a Belvedere starting up you watched closely because you would be a witness at Board of Enquiry rather than a member of the Board investigating the fire. We did fly in the Belvederes from time to time as waist gunners using GPMGs as they had no establishment for that role.