croydon aerodrome air safety
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A couple more :
Vickers Viking 1 G-AHPJ Hunting Air Travel heavy landing undercarriage collapsed 23 May 1947.
Miles Aerovan G-AISG North Sea Air Transport,Brough,Stalled after a steep take off with 604 racing pigeons as cargo. Pilot killed plus 2 injured. 446 lbs overloaded. 14. Jun 1947
Vickers Viking 1 G-AHPJ Hunting Air Travel heavy landing undercarriage collapsed 23 May 1947.
Miles Aerovan G-AISG North Sea Air Transport,Brough,Stalled after a steep take off with 604 racing pigeons as cargo. Pilot killed plus 2 injured. 446 lbs overloaded. 14. Jun 1947
Croydon "why grass"
WHBM asks why so many of our pre war civil airfields were only grass.
Yes, the aircraft then operating would have needed to take off into wind,and as many of them were without nav aids or gyro instuments winter flying was limited,so the expense of tarmac was not deemed worthwhile.
Fast forward to WW2 and you have a requirement for heavy aircraft to operate at any time,and therefore cost is secondary.
Gatwick blossomed later as a charter "inclusive flights" field and had to expand after the war as Londons "second airport" but only had a runway from 1958.
I never quite understood why it was not developed more during the war, but it was one of the few to escape the multiple runway additions of its regional partners,although it had the steel and wire tracking laid to reinforce the grass surface.
Croydon had nowhere to expand and therefore was closed as Gatwick rose from its waterlogged past.
The problem from operating off soft ground is the lack of performance information that gives you the exact distance you may need to get off with a safety margin,couple this with most grass airfields having to reduce the TORA at times and it becomes a commercial no no.
Of course Croydons demise was Biggin Hills gain,so at least the huge expansion of private flying in the 60's had somewhere to operate from.
Yes, the aircraft then operating would have needed to take off into wind,and as many of them were without nav aids or gyro instuments winter flying was limited,so the expense of tarmac was not deemed worthwhile.
Fast forward to WW2 and you have a requirement for heavy aircraft to operate at any time,and therefore cost is secondary.
Gatwick blossomed later as a charter "inclusive flights" field and had to expand after the war as Londons "second airport" but only had a runway from 1958.
I never quite understood why it was not developed more during the war, but it was one of the few to escape the multiple runway additions of its regional partners,although it had the steel and wire tracking laid to reinforce the grass surface.
Croydon had nowhere to expand and therefore was closed as Gatwick rose from its waterlogged past.
The problem from operating off soft ground is the lack of performance information that gives you the exact distance you may need to get off with a safety margin,couple this with most grass airfields having to reduce the TORA at times and it becomes a commercial no no.
Of course Croydons demise was Biggin Hills gain,so at least the huge expansion of private flying in the 60's had somewhere to operate from.
Croydon Space
WHBM, you seem to forget that the aircraft operating from Croydon in the 50's had nowhere near the performance of those at "stol port".
Not only that but Croydon sits in a "bowl", and whilst a runway would have helped it was never going to built after Gatwick was improved.
Even the RAF did not bother in improving facilities to any great extent,so i suspect with transport aircraft getting larger and heavier the writing was on the wall even then.Croydon could only have extended across the "Purley Way",but as this was a main route out of London,and on quite a slope, what was the point.With Heathrow,and Gatwick emerging as the future, Croydon was only ever going to continue as a club/light charter field,but no one was going to subsidise that with land in the area being eagerly sought for industry and housing.
Croydon has a proud history and at least is still a relatively open space,plus we have the terminal building and the Airport Hotel to remind us of its past glory in setting standards well ahead of its time.
Two world wars and the birthplace of our organised civil operations sounds a pretty good record to me,and is in good company with Kenley just up the road.
Pobjoy
Not only that but Croydon sits in a "bowl", and whilst a runway would have helped it was never going to built after Gatwick was improved.
Even the RAF did not bother in improving facilities to any great extent,so i suspect with transport aircraft getting larger and heavier the writing was on the wall even then.Croydon could only have extended across the "Purley Way",but as this was a main route out of London,and on quite a slope, what was the point.With Heathrow,and Gatwick emerging as the future, Croydon was only ever going to continue as a club/light charter field,but no one was going to subsidise that with land in the area being eagerly sought for industry and housing.
Croydon has a proud history and at least is still a relatively open space,plus we have the terminal building and the Airport Hotel to remind us of its past glory in setting standards well ahead of its time.
Two world wars and the birthplace of our organised civil operations sounds a pretty good record to me,and is in good company with Kenley just up the road.
Pobjoy
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Croydon aerodrome air safety
Hi folks from BDP Apr 9 2010
Dont know if this is already covered but when I joined KLM at Croydon
as a junior straight from school in 1947 there was talk about a DC3 that during a severe snowstorm crashed on take-off - killing 12 pax
- 3 of whom were nuns and burned to death.
Flying as SPENCER AIRWAYS - I beleive the a/c was overloaded (18 pax and 5 crew) and most likely stalled on take-off - crashing into another DC3 that was on the ground.
Both a/c were Czech registered - The date Jan 25th 1947.
On another point KLM did have a DC4 once land at Croydon but
never repeated - staying with DAKs untill they moved out to LAP
about 1948
During the war a Lancaster also attempted to land at Croydon
- regretably with fatal results
Dont know if this is already covered but when I joined KLM at Croydon
as a junior straight from school in 1947 there was talk about a DC3 that during a severe snowstorm crashed on take-off - killing 12 pax
- 3 of whom were nuns and burned to death.
Flying as SPENCER AIRWAYS - I beleive the a/c was overloaded (18 pax and 5 crew) and most likely stalled on take-off - crashing into another DC3 that was on the ground.
Both a/c were Czech registered - The date Jan 25th 1947.
On another point KLM did have a DC4 once land at Croydon but
never repeated - staying with DAKs untill they moved out to LAP
about 1948
During the war a Lancaster also attempted to land at Croydon
- regretably with fatal results
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Air crash of De Havilland Rapide at Wallington.
I remember this incident extremely well, although I can not put an accurate date to it, other than to say it was 'post war' 1940s and I believe on a Sunday.
I then lived in Foresters Close, off Foresters Drive which flanked the western boundary of Croydon Airport. A De Havilland Rapide passed over our house after take off'. Looking out of the rear window of my parent's house I saw it descend, then a rising plume of black smoke.
The report of the crash was headline news in the National Press. The pilot, the only person on board, had tried to land in Stafford Road and could well have done - very little traffic in those days - had it not been for hitting the trolley bus wires as he nursed his stricken plane down. These slewed him towards a church which, from memory, had a full complement of children within. He then hit a dwarf wall, outside a garage, which slewed him again directly into a large tree separating him from the wall of the church.The plane exploded on impact, setting the tree alight and killing the pilot. The church wall was totally blackened by the heat but remained intact. Those the other side were in no way affected.
The front page news reports told the story of the 'miracle' tree, preventing a multitude of deaths and had pictorial drawings showing the descent, slewing and final impact.
I then lived in Foresters Close, off Foresters Drive which flanked the western boundary of Croydon Airport. A De Havilland Rapide passed over our house after take off'. Looking out of the rear window of my parent's house I saw it descend, then a rising plume of black smoke.
The report of the crash was headline news in the National Press. The pilot, the only person on board, had tried to land in Stafford Road and could well have done - very little traffic in those days - had it not been for hitting the trolley bus wires as he nursed his stricken plane down. These slewed him towards a church which, from memory, had a full complement of children within. He then hit a dwarf wall, outside a garage, which slewed him again directly into a large tree separating him from the wall of the church.The plane exploded on impact, setting the tree alight and killing the pilot. The church wall was totally blackened by the heat but remained intact. Those the other side were in no way affected.
The front page news reports told the story of the 'miracle' tree, preventing a multitude of deaths and had pictorial drawings showing the descent, slewing and final impact.
One11
Whilst researching the September 1952 Rapide crash I came across the following cuttings in the British press regarding the 1947 Dak crash at Croydon.
Fascinating reading from events sixty three-plus years ago.
Post war this was exceeded on 25/1/47 by another take off crash when a Rhodesian DC-3struck a Czech DC-3 with the loss of 18 in all.
Fascinating reading from events sixty three-plus years ago.
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September 1952 Croydon DH Rapide Crash
My father was the pilot killed in the crash.
Does anyone have any more information about the history of the plane or pictures of the crash?
Jonathan Carne
Does anyone have any more information about the history of the plane or pictures of the crash?
Jonathan Carne
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Hi Jm
Regarding the Rapide crash in Wallington I am sorry I cannot add a lot to
what has already been outlined. Our family lived about a mile from the crash site - As stated the a/c crashed either on the Church or on the roof of the Garage showrooms next door. A Sainsbury supermarket now stands on the site of the church and Garage which I beleive went under the name of Rose Cars. My younger brother - Edward Phillips - who was working as a photographers assistant in business premises just the other side of the cross roads took several photos at the time - but I am afraid I have lost contact with him. If I come up with anything further I will advise.
Brian
Regarding the Rapide crash in Wallington I am sorry I cannot add a lot to
what has already been outlined. Our family lived about a mile from the crash site - As stated the a/c crashed either on the Church or on the roof of the Garage showrooms next door. A Sainsbury supermarket now stands on the site of the church and Garage which I beleive went under the name of Rose Cars. My younger brother - Edward Phillips - who was working as a photographers assistant in business premises just the other side of the cross roads took several photos at the time - but I am afraid I have lost contact with him. If I come up with anything further I will advise.
Brian
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According to the Gatwick Aviation Soc publication deHavilland Biplane Transports, the Rapide was G-AIZI and had been owned by Mr Carne at Elstree since 31 Mar 1952 when acquired from Reid & Sigrest Ltd. They took it from the RAF in Dec 1946 where it had served in Berlin as serial NR785. It had been built at Loughborough by Brush Coachworks in 1945.
The same source attributes the crash to power loss on the starboard engine.
The same source attributes the crash to power loss on the starboard engine.
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The first film made by the Shell Film Unit (in 1936) was 'Airport', actually a day in the life of Croydon Airport. Marvellous film (although nearly 50 years since I last viewed it). Anybody else seen it?
Here's another view of Croydon Airport in the 30's.
YouTube - Croydon Airport in the 1930s
YouTube - Croydon Airport in the 1930s
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Croydon Airport - Lancaster crash
As a boy attending Wallington Grammer School for Boys one of my classmates lived in a house in Lavender Vale which was different from its neighbours because it was built on the site of the house where the Lancaster crashed. I understood it was trying to make an emergency landing at Croydon. My friend's family found various relics when digging in the garden. My mother worked for an insurance agent who lived very close by and helped try to rescue the inhabitants of the house and/or the aircraft crew.
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Lancaster crash Croydon
...Further to this incident - my father was on duty at Croydon that night
as an Air Ministry policeman and witnessed the Lancasters attempts to land
- It had been badly shot up with flak damage over enemy territory and was attempting to land at Croydon but probably had to overshoot - probably
realising that Croydon was too small - We lived in the next road parrallel
with Lavander - Milton Rd and my father feared it had crashed onto or
near our house and so rushed back to Wallington in the early hours - We were asleep in the Anderson shelter at the time - and sadly we were
taken out to view the Lancasters funeral pyre.
...
as an Air Ministry policeman and witnessed the Lancasters attempts to land
- It had been badly shot up with flak damage over enemy territory and was attempting to land at Croydon but probably had to overshoot - probably
realising that Croydon was too small - We lived in the next road parrallel
with Lavander - Milton Rd and my father feared it had crashed onto or
near our house and so rushed back to Wallington in the early hours - We were asleep in the Anderson shelter at the time - and sadly we were
taken out to view the Lancasters funeral pyre.
...
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Lancaster crash in Lavender Vale
In response to PASIR's comment, Lost Bombers - World War II Lost Bombers gives some more details of the specific Lancaster, ND582. PASIR's account of that night also got picked up in another forum - Lancaster crash - Croydon? .
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Whilst having a look for any pics of Hanno's incident at Entebbe, I came across this one. Apparently it's the remains of the sole Vickers Velox (or Vellox?) which came to grief in Wallington in Aug 1936. Location is given as "South View Road", though I can't find that name on current maps.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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It could be Southview Gardens which is just off Sandy Lane South. My boss lives in Lavender Vale and is treasurer of the local cricket club, just a few yards away; will ask him if he knows anything.
He's mentioned the crash in Lavender Vale before!
He's mentioned the crash in Lavender Vale before!
The Vickers Vellox accident (at 02.00 on 10 Aug 36) is described in the book I mentioned earlier in this thread "Croydon Airport the great days", including a photograph similar to the above, taken from the same place (but with different people standing and windows open, so not the same photo).
Vickers Vellox :
Vickers 212 Vellox - passenger
The houses struck were 14 and 16 Hillside Gardens, which appear (on Google Streetview) to be the houses at the junction with Southview Gardens (the photograph was possibly taken from an upstairs window of the first house in Southview Gardens), and the houses were damaged more by fire than by the impact. A policeman was badly burned trying to extract the crew, all four of whom were killed. This road is to the west of the airfield, about 2 streets west of Foresters Drive, whose houses received a number of pre-war accidents.
Vickers Vellox :
Vickers 212 Vellox - passenger
The houses struck were 14 and 16 Hillside Gardens, which appear (on Google Streetview) to be the houses at the junction with Southview Gardens (the photograph was possibly taken from an upstairs window of the first house in Southview Gardens), and the houses were damaged more by fire than by the impact. A policeman was badly burned trying to extract the crew, all four of whom were killed. This road is to the west of the airfield, about 2 streets west of Foresters Drive, whose houses received a number of pre-war accidents.