Lightning
Thread Starter
India Four Two;
1. It was a long way down to the ground.
2. The cockpit was very cramped.
3. I couldn't see how you could possibly eject without losing your kneecaps. Did the seat rails slope backwards?
4. How did the tape ASI work out in practice? Was it easy to read? It looked like it had come from a mid-60s Morris 1100.
1. Yep, especially from 60,000 feet!
2. Yes, but I was slim and silph-like.
3. We were all measured for thigh length, which was the critical factor. The rails did slope backwards, but nothing like a modern jet.
4. The ASI was fine. Fixed IAS and sliding tape Mach number. I don't think the Morris 1100 was capable of 650 knots/Mach 2.
So there I was, off a tanker, full to the brim, and accelerating to Mach 2.
As the strip speed passed 1.5 at the right end it all became green with mildew. The jet obviously hadn't been fast for some time. When I snagged it the line Sergeant didn't believe me!
WIWOL, WIWOL, WIWOL
1. It was a long way down to the ground.
2. The cockpit was very cramped.
3. I couldn't see how you could possibly eject without losing your kneecaps. Did the seat rails slope backwards?
4. How did the tape ASI work out in practice? Was it easy to read? It looked like it had come from a mid-60s Morris 1100.
1. Yep, especially from 60,000 feet!
2. Yes, but I was slim and silph-like.
3. We were all measured for thigh length, which was the critical factor. The rails did slope backwards, but nothing like a modern jet.
4. The ASI was fine. Fixed IAS and sliding tape Mach number. I don't think the Morris 1100 was capable of 650 knots/Mach 2.
So there I was, off a tanker, full to the brim, and accelerating to Mach 2.
As the strip speed passed 1.5 at the right end it all became green with mildew. The jet obviously hadn't been fast for some time. When I snagged it the line Sergeant didn't believe me!
WIWOL, WIWOL, WIWOL
Thread Starter
BOAC,
Ah, Spikey Newman (G'day Mate).
Must have been Tremblers then.
Speechless Two,
This thread is about Lightning Pilots, not bomber or helicopter trash.
Ah, Spikey Newman (G'day Mate).
Must have been Tremblers then.
Speechless Two,
This thread is about Lightning Pilots, not bomber or helicopter trash.
Yes, Him
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Gainsey, You gotta red & white checked suit?
Actually tracked one going down on PAR one night off the Lady's Mile end, could easily see the aircraft, if somewhat briefly, in a parabola, plus a slow descending return from the 'chute, Think it was Master Pilot Roy Williams in the PAR seat, he vectored the Whirlwind to where the chute splashed down.
I spent many hours squinting down a periscope and consequently getting a bad back looking at Lightnings in one of those pretty aircraft in post 13. Then one day when the Lightning OCU was at Marham while Coltishall's runway was up I had the chance of a trip in a T4. Reaching 35,000' in something less than the 19 minutes it took a Victor was an eye-opener. Had to be the most exciting 40 minutes flying I ever did (particularly the way the G suit squeezed your thighs during a run-in and break 
)
I am hugely envious of anyone who had the luck (and the skill) to fly one of those magnificent aircraft.
)I am hugely envious of anyone who had the luck (and the skill) to fly one of those magnificent aircraft.
Thread Starter
Tankertrashnav,
Glad you enjoyed your trip.
You may well have given me fuel at some time.
En-route to Malta and Cyprus we used to play battleships with the 55 and 57 navs to relieve the boredom.
I remember one trip where we were in cloud for over an hour, and sitting under a Victor wing under such conditions was not filed under fun! Couldn't see the other Lightning under the other wing.
LM
Glad you enjoyed your trip.
You may well have given me fuel at some time.
En-route to Malta and Cyprus we used to play battleships with the 55 and 57 navs to relieve the boredom.
I remember one trip where we were in cloud for over an hour, and sitting under a Victor wing under such conditions was not filed under fun! Couldn't see the other Lightning under the other wing.
LM
En-route to Malta and Cyprus we used to play battleships with the 55 and 57 navs to relieve the boredom.
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Prone To Ejection!!
Was reading about a 5 Sqn Binbrook pilot I think? the other year, He not only 'Banged Out' once but 3 x in about 5 months!!
Think you were only allowed to 'Eject' 3 x in any one career due to your spine shrinking!!
His fellow Sqn comrades made a bit of a celebrity of him.
It was also joked that he knew the local taxi drivers well after being driven back to Binbrook with his parachute in his bag!!
Think you were only allowed to 'Eject' 3 x in any one career due to your spine shrinking!!
His fellow Sqn comrades made a bit of a celebrity of him.
It was also joked that he knew the local taxi drivers well after being driven back to Binbrook with his parachute in his bag!!
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Ref the Officer Newman exploit raised above.
Venue was a Fire Power demo on Salisbury Plain and exactly as written above, the good gentleman decided to use 2 executive calls for burner. Hence, consequent to call 1, Leader N saw his formation departing rapidly away to the front, all desperately trying to recover a situation that was pretty much out of control.
Stories abound of Spikey, all who new him will remember the liquorish papers he used for his roll-ups and his high speed, staff car arrivals into the courtyard at MPC when he was OC there. One day, somebody closed the sliding barrier across the courtyard just enough to bar the passage of an Austin 1800 but Spikey recognised the hazard too late. Whoops
His personal demo to me of how not to tank the T5 from the RH seat aged me a bit at the time.
lm
Venue was a Fire Power demo on Salisbury Plain and exactly as written above, the good gentleman decided to use 2 executive calls for burner. Hence, consequent to call 1, Leader N saw his formation departing rapidly away to the front, all desperately trying to recover a situation that was pretty much out of control.
Stories abound of Spikey, all who new him will remember the liquorish papers he used for his roll-ups and his high speed, staff car arrivals into the courtyard at MPC when he was OC there. One day, somebody closed the sliding barrier across the courtyard just enough to bar the passage of an Austin 1800 but Spikey recognised the hazard too late. Whoops
His personal demo to me of how not to tank the T5 from the RH seat aged me a bit at the time.
lm
Thread Starter
"His personal demo to me of how not to tank the T5 from the RH seat aged me a bit at the time."
That's because the T5 had to be flown with the left hand and throttles operated by the right.
It took me quite a while to master this on 226 OCU because it's not natural for a fighter pilot.
Spiky does not feature on www.lightningpilots.com so I sadly feel he might have gone to the big hangar in the sky.
That's because the T5 had to be flown with the left hand and throttles operated by the right.
It took me quite a while to master this on 226 OCU because it's not natural for a fighter pilot.
Spiky does not feature on www.lightningpilots.com so I sadly feel he might have gone to the big hangar in the sky.
Having discussed Spike Newman (I wasn't on the Tremblers), anyone remember the odd Lightning that failed to get airborne? I recollect looking out of the crewroom at Colt and seeing a Mk1 trailing a large ball of fire. That was P H who had retracted the gear a bit prematurely; I believe that this happened more than once. Luckily the aircraft did not cartwheel. The FRCs forbade a wheels up landing (which was completed sucessfully more than once, by mistake, to my knowledge). I think that the downward force of the earth on the rear fuselage overcame the elevator effectiveness, and so the aircraft tended to pitch nose down!! There was then a nervousness as to whether the aircraft would remain errect or not. As I recall, a similar effect occurred to a Reds Hawk - caused by the airbrake contacting terra firma.
Thread Starter
My posted age is correct, but the 'ol memory fades at times.
If I remember, the problem with a wheels up landing was the danger of fuel vapour in the ventral tank igniting
. All Lightnings up to and including the F3 (and T5) had ventrals which could be jettisoned. This was not possible in the F2A and F6.
The ventral jettison handle was somewhere down low on the left cockpit side, very close to the emergency gear handle. Once at Wattisham a certain Lightning Mate had gear problems and was orbiting. He had to use the emergency gear lowering, and we saw the ventral fall away. This was rapidly followed by the call "pulling the other handle now", and down went the Dunlops.
The wing was very strong and most people felt a wheels up would not end in disaster.
Are any other Lightning Mates able to add two-penneth?
WIWOL......
If I remember, the problem with a wheels up landing was the danger of fuel vapour in the ventral tank igniting
. All Lightnings up to and including the F3 (and T5) had ventrals which could be jettisoned. This was not possible in the F2A and F6.The ventral jettison handle was somewhere down low on the left cockpit side, very close to the emergency gear handle. Once at Wattisham a certain Lightning Mate had gear problems and was orbiting. He had to use the emergency gear lowering, and we saw the ventral fall away. This was rapidly followed by the call "pulling the other handle now", and down went the Dunlops.
The wing was very strong and most people felt a wheels up would not end in disaster.
Are any other Lightning Mates able to add two-penneth?
WIWOL......
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To the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever completed a true wheels-up landing in the Lightning. I may regret saying that!
Several folk ended up back on the ground having lifted the wheels too soon on take-off. In addition, there was a spate of T5 events when the main-wheels 'spontaneously' retracted after landing. The critical point being that the partially retracted main-wheels acted as out-riggers to hold the aircraft relatively wings-level at the critical time.
The main concern for a wheels-up landing was a wing digging in and rolling the aircraft over. Clear evidence of that likelihood was provided when a T4 suffered a left main leg detachment from the wing mounts shortly after touch-down. It left the runway, the left wing dug into the ground and the aircraft rolled left, just past the vertical, before stopping. It was possible to open the canopy and extract the crew after clearing away earth to form a pit into which the canopy opened. There was a dramatic picture of this incident around for several years.
All in all, a wheels-up landing in a Lightning was not a good option to contemplate. FJ aircraft departing the runway at high speed onto unprepared surfaces rarely survive in a good state Moreover, the assisted escape system is often damaged by the severe vibration experienced, further reducing ones chances of surviving. The Lightning seat, lacking a rocket pack, would not be a viable option PDQ anyway.
lm
Several folk ended up back on the ground having lifted the wheels too soon on take-off. In addition, there was a spate of T5 events when the main-wheels 'spontaneously' retracted after landing. The critical point being that the partially retracted main-wheels acted as out-riggers to hold the aircraft relatively wings-level at the critical time.
The main concern for a wheels-up landing was a wing digging in and rolling the aircraft over. Clear evidence of that likelihood was provided when a T4 suffered a left main leg detachment from the wing mounts shortly after touch-down. It left the runway, the left wing dug into the ground and the aircraft rolled left, just past the vertical, before stopping. It was possible to open the canopy and extract the crew after clearing away earth to form a pit into which the canopy opened. There was a dramatic picture of this incident around for several years.
All in all, a wheels-up landing in a Lightning was not a good option to contemplate. FJ aircraft departing the runway at high speed onto unprepared surfaces rarely survive in a good state Moreover, the assisted escape system is often damaged by the severe vibration experienced, further reducing ones chances of surviving. The Lightning seat, lacking a rocket pack, would not be a viable option PDQ anyway.
lm