Flying through Tower Bridge
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Al says that there was no intention of flying through the bridge spans until he saw the bridge appear in front of him. His intention was to overfly Parliament and London because of the way in which the RAF brass were heroically ignoring their own anniversary. He did this, but on the outbound route he saw the bridge and suddenly realised that he could fly through it. His only excuse for such wild thinking was that he had a cold at the time and was suitably medicated!
It's fine to look at all the risks involved but my view is that he showed some flair and enthusiasm and wasn't afraid to take a calculated risk. These days, in a country where it'll probably be declared illegal to get out of bed without a Health & Safety assessment soon, we need more people like him.
It's fine to look at all the risks involved but my view is that he showed some flair and enthusiasm and wasn't afraid to take a calculated risk. These days, in a country where it'll probably be declared illegal to get out of bed without a Health & Safety assessment soon, we need more people like him.
Tim
Taking a calculated risk to fly under / through a bridge is fine, but the calculator of risks often ignores the probability that Murphy's Law will apply to his considered assessment.
I feel sure that the pilot who crashed into a bank of the River Avon after having flown under Clifton suspension bridge in 1957 made all the right risk assessments, but it didn’t stop his assessments of the risks being proved wrong and killing himself in the process. See quote below.
Similarly the spectators were all were appreciative of Neil Williams flying inverted in his Zlin Trener just 20-30ft above their heads at a 1960’s BoB display at Biggin Hill as shown in the screen grabs below from my 8 mm cine film of his inverted fly past. It worked then, but what if Murphy came along and it hadn’t?
Personally if I was a pedestrian on or near Tower Bridge at the time I’d much prefer the risk assessor deciding to fly over rather than through the bridge.
Approaching inverted
Flying by - Inverted
Climbing away, still inverted.
It's fine to look at all the risks involved but my view is that he showed some flair and enthusiasm and wasn't afraid to take a calculated risk.
I feel sure that the pilot who crashed into a bank of the River Avon after having flown under Clifton suspension bridge in 1957 made all the right risk assessments, but it didn’t stop his assessments of the risks being proved wrong and killing himself in the process. See quote below.
Similarly the spectators were all were appreciative of Neil Williams flying inverted in his Zlin Trener just 20-30ft above their heads at a 1960’s BoB display at Biggin Hill as shown in the screen grabs below from my 8 mm cine film of his inverted fly past. It worked then, but what if Murphy came along and it hadn’t?
Personally if I was a pedestrian on or near Tower Bridge at the time I’d much prefer the risk assessor deciding to fly over rather than through the bridge.
JET PILOT KILLED IN AVON GORGE - VAMPIRE FLOWN UNDER BRIDGE -
UNITS FINAL PARADE
An hour before the Duke of Gloucester was due to take the salute at the disbandment parade of 501 (County of Gloucester) Squadron, Royal Auxiliary Air Force, at Filton, Bristol, yesterday [Sunday, Feb 03, 1957], a Vampire jet fighter attached to the squadron crashed into a bank of the River Avon after having flown under Clifton suspension bridge.
The pilot, Flying Officer J. G. Crossley, aged 28, was killed. The suspension bridge spans the Avon Gorge and carries a road 245ft. above the river. The aircraft narrowly missed the bridge, according to eye witnesses, and dived into a steep slope on the Somerset side of the river, near Pill, about two miles from the bridge. The impact caused a slight landslide which almost reached a railway line below. No trains were run on the line, which connects Bristol and Portishead, for several hours. The wreckage of the aircraft caught fire and Bristol and Somerset firemen had to lay a hose for more than a quarter of a mile across the hillside. The body of the pilot was found among the wreckage.
Flying Officer Crossley, a single man, was employed by the flight test department of a subsidiary of the Bristol Aeroplane Company. He lived in Bristol, but his home was at Blackburn.
Mr. William Rodgers, prospective Labour candidate in the forthcoming by-election at Bristol West, said last night that he was admiring the view from the suspension bridge when he heard the scream of jet engines. “The aircraft came in very low” he said. He watched it disappear up the gorge and round a bend. There was a loud explosion and immediately smoke billowed up."
Mr. A. H. Fenn, proprietor of a kiosk on the bridge, said: “There was a strong wind, and as the aircraft continued up the gorge it appeared to roll or bank to the left I imagine the strong cross-wind must have caught him as he was banking."
Squadron Leader M. C. Collings, officer commanding the squadron, said the aircraft was being tested as a reserve for the parade fly-past No route had been laid down for it, but the pilot had not permission to attempt to fly under the bridge.
The Duke of Gloucester, who is honorary Air Commodore of the squadron, knew nothing of the crash until after the parade He was told of it by Air Marshal Sir Thomas Pike, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief. Fighter Command.
ROYAL TRIBUTE
At the parade, the first to be held by a Royal Auxiliary Air Force squadron since the recent disbandment announcement, the Duke said: The reasons for the Government’s decision have been given and we must however difficult it is, loyally accept them. I can only say that I fully understand and sympathize most sincerely with your feelings at this moment. The fame of your squadron and of the rest of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force will, I know, live on long after disbandment.”
He recalled that 501 Squadron went quickly to France when the last war began and one morning “bagged” 18 enemy aircraft before breakfast. Later the squadron played a distinguished part in the Battle of Britain, and it was Sergeant James Lacy, a member of the squadron, who shot down the Heinkel which bombed Buckingham Palace.
The parade included both personnel of 501 Squadron and of 2501 Field Squadron. Royal Auxiliary Air Force Regiment. A solitary Vampire jet fighter flew past as the Duke took the salute.
PILOT’S FLIGHT WAS “UNAUTHORIZED”
Flying Officer John Greenwood Crossley, aged 28, the pilot who crashed and died in the Avon Gorge after flying a Vampire aircraft under the Clifton suspension bridge last Sunday, was on an unauthorized flight, it was stated at the inquest yesterday at Flax Bourton, near Bristol.
Corporal Robert Charles Troll, of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, stationed with 501 Squadron at Filton, said that at 10.30 a.m. on Sunday he saw Crossley sitting in a Vampire starting the engines[sic]. “He then climbed out, dashed round to the starboard side, disconnected the starting appliance, and then climbed back into the aircraft as if he was in a hurry. ... I made signs to prevent him from taking off because the nose wheel chock was behind the wheel and danger might ensue. He ignored me completely”
The inquest was adjourned until February 26.
UNITS FINAL PARADE
An hour before the Duke of Gloucester was due to take the salute at the disbandment parade of 501 (County of Gloucester) Squadron, Royal Auxiliary Air Force, at Filton, Bristol, yesterday [Sunday, Feb 03, 1957], a Vampire jet fighter attached to the squadron crashed into a bank of the River Avon after having flown under Clifton suspension bridge.
The pilot, Flying Officer J. G. Crossley, aged 28, was killed. The suspension bridge spans the Avon Gorge and carries a road 245ft. above the river. The aircraft narrowly missed the bridge, according to eye witnesses, and dived into a steep slope on the Somerset side of the river, near Pill, about two miles from the bridge. The impact caused a slight landslide which almost reached a railway line below. No trains were run on the line, which connects Bristol and Portishead, for several hours. The wreckage of the aircraft caught fire and Bristol and Somerset firemen had to lay a hose for more than a quarter of a mile across the hillside. The body of the pilot was found among the wreckage.
Flying Officer Crossley, a single man, was employed by the flight test department of a subsidiary of the Bristol Aeroplane Company. He lived in Bristol, but his home was at Blackburn.
Mr. William Rodgers, prospective Labour candidate in the forthcoming by-election at Bristol West, said last night that he was admiring the view from the suspension bridge when he heard the scream of jet engines. “The aircraft came in very low” he said. He watched it disappear up the gorge and round a bend. There was a loud explosion and immediately smoke billowed up."
Mr. A. H. Fenn, proprietor of a kiosk on the bridge, said: “There was a strong wind, and as the aircraft continued up the gorge it appeared to roll or bank to the left I imagine the strong cross-wind must have caught him as he was banking."
Squadron Leader M. C. Collings, officer commanding the squadron, said the aircraft was being tested as a reserve for the parade fly-past No route had been laid down for it, but the pilot had not permission to attempt to fly under the bridge.
The Duke of Gloucester, who is honorary Air Commodore of the squadron, knew nothing of the crash until after the parade He was told of it by Air Marshal Sir Thomas Pike, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief. Fighter Command.
ROYAL TRIBUTE
At the parade, the first to be held by a Royal Auxiliary Air Force squadron since the recent disbandment announcement, the Duke said: The reasons for the Government’s decision have been given and we must however difficult it is, loyally accept them. I can only say that I fully understand and sympathize most sincerely with your feelings at this moment. The fame of your squadron and of the rest of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force will, I know, live on long after disbandment.”
He recalled that 501 Squadron went quickly to France when the last war began and one morning “bagged” 18 enemy aircraft before breakfast. Later the squadron played a distinguished part in the Battle of Britain, and it was Sergeant James Lacy, a member of the squadron, who shot down the Heinkel which bombed Buckingham Palace.
The parade included both personnel of 501 Squadron and of 2501 Field Squadron. Royal Auxiliary Air Force Regiment. A solitary Vampire jet fighter flew past as the Duke took the salute.
PILOT’S FLIGHT WAS “UNAUTHORIZED”
Flying Officer John Greenwood Crossley, aged 28, the pilot who crashed and died in the Avon Gorge after flying a Vampire aircraft under the Clifton suspension bridge last Sunday, was on an unauthorized flight, it was stated at the inquest yesterday at Flax Bourton, near Bristol.
Corporal Robert Charles Troll, of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, stationed with 501 Squadron at Filton, said that at 10.30 a.m. on Sunday he saw Crossley sitting in a Vampire starting the engines[sic]. “He then climbed out, dashed round to the starboard side, disconnected the starting appliance, and then climbed back into the aircraft as if he was in a hurry. ... I made signs to prevent him from taking off because the nose wheel chock was behind the wheel and danger might ensue. He ignored me completely”
The inquest was adjourned until February 26.
Approaching inverted
Flying by - Inverted
Climbing away, still inverted.
Last edited by Warmtoast; 22nd Sep 2017 at 09:07.
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teeteringhead
I take your point about the risk of there being a helicopter in the Helilanes. I assumed Double Zero was referring to the public on the ground.BOAC
“on that basis, we could fly a 747 through there”
Not a –400; even a -100, -200 or –300 would have literally just a few feet width clearance so there would be a real risk of colliding with one of the towers.
“isn't all 'risk' when no accident occurs, 'fanciful'?”
eg If a drunk driver drives along a crowded shopping street at 70 mph there is a real risk he may cause injury or damage. Even if neither damage nor injury was actually caused, the risk was nonetheless real and not fanciful.
'Fanciful' means over-imaginative. We frequently see fanciful (or unrealistic or hypothetical) risks alleged in melodramatic tabloid press reports (and in some posts on PPRuNe) about aviation incidents. They often include the ‘What if ………..’ variety.
Tim McLelland
These days, in a country where it'll probably be declared illegal to get out of bed without a Health & Safety assessment soon, we need more people like him.
Warmtoast
Personally if I was a pedestrian on or near Tower Bridge at the time I’d much prefer the risk assessor deciding to fly over rather than through the bridge.
All your Vampire at Bristol story illustrates is that accidents do happen. Nobody can deny that's true but it's no reason IMHO to try to eliminate all risks. If we spent our lives worrying about Murphy coming along, the world would be a dull place. We seem to be moving in that direction worryingly quickly. (See TM's post.)
If Neil Williams was actually doing that over the crowd (difficult to tell from the photographs) then I agree with your criticism.
His ability to fly accurately when inverted saved his life in 1970: Zlin wing Structural Failure Report - Neil Williams
That said, he did have a bit of a reputation for taking risks which were too great. Some say that's what eventually killed him; whether it was 'pressonitis' leading him to take a weather risk or a simple navigation error, it was a ferry flight not a display.
H.
Lightning Mate
Not seen you since the Colt Jag Reunion
Cannot possibly comment on the org and publicity for this, the first "Jaguar Reunion" since the chop, but it is to be found on the Jag Assoc website.
If you came, the numbers would be up by a significant percentage, not to mention the quality of the banter.
Roundout
Warmtoast......
A couple of queries re the Neil Williams flying over the crowd incident at Biggin Hill. Is the date 1960 accurate? By my reckoning no Trener Masters were rigisterd in Britain at the time. If the date is correct it must have been a foreign registerd one.
Incidentally the first Trener Master registered was Neville Browning's
G-ASIM Registered 25 June 63.I recall seing it at a Biggin Hill Air Fair, possibly either '63 or '64......
Planemike
A couple of queries re the Neil Williams flying over the crowd incident at Biggin Hill. Is the date 1960 accurate? By my reckoning no Trener Masters were rigisterd in Britain at the time. If the date is correct it must have been a foreign registerd one.
Incidentally the first Trener Master registered was Neville Browning's
G-ASIM Registered 25 June 63.I recall seing it at a Biggin Hill Air Fair, possibly either '63 or '64......
Planemike
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We are well away from Al's 'demonstration' now and into fine semantics, but I believe the RAF's actions on that event were taken not on perceived 'risk' of any kind but purely on disciplinary grounds.
I wonder if Heliport recognises that in aviation a very high percentage of risk, actual and not fanciful (indeed demonstated) has arisen from unplanned and impulsive manouevres conducted by pilots? I have, sadly, a few friends who have damaged aircraft and some indeed killed themselves in such manouevres. Others, not of my acquaintance, have killed by-standers. Risk becoming event.
Does he indeed know that the life of an experienced pilot revolves around the 'what if'? Why are engine failures on take-off briefed? After all, they are extremely rare, though they have indeed occurred. Is that 'fanciful'? Do not all aircraft accidents happen when the 'what if' becomes the 'it did'?
I have in my life taken 'risks' with aircraft (hopefully well-considered), am fully supportive of the Tim's desire to avoid the 'nanny state' and get fearlessly out of bed (most) mornings. Is it not just a question of balance and necessary risk? Everything we do has an element of risk. Do we actually have a god-given right to impose an element of risk on others in the interests of keeping the 'free spirit' alive? To take Heliport's driving analogy a stage further - is there a risk to others, actual or fanciful, if we exceed the speed limit in a built-up area, just because we want to?
I wonder if Heliport recognises that in aviation a very high percentage of risk, actual and not fanciful (indeed demonstated) has arisen from unplanned and impulsive manouevres conducted by pilots? I have, sadly, a few friends who have damaged aircraft and some indeed killed themselves in such manouevres. Others, not of my acquaintance, have killed by-standers. Risk becoming event.
Does he indeed know that the life of an experienced pilot revolves around the 'what if'? Why are engine failures on take-off briefed? After all, they are extremely rare, though they have indeed occurred. Is that 'fanciful'? Do not all aircraft accidents happen when the 'what if' becomes the 'it did'?
I have in my life taken 'risks' with aircraft (hopefully well-considered), am fully supportive of the Tim's desire to avoid the 'nanny state' and get fearlessly out of bed (most) mornings. Is it not just a question of balance and necessary risk? Everything we do has an element of risk. Do we actually have a god-given right to impose an element of risk on others in the interests of keeping the 'free spirit' alive? To take Heliport's driving analogy a stage further - is there a risk to others, actual or fanciful, if we exceed the speed limit in a built-up area, just because we want to?
Planemike
My post re-Neil Williams inverted at Biggin states: "at a 1960’s BoB display" (my emphasis) so it was taken any time onwards from 1960 when I acquired my first cine camera which I used regularly until the early 1970's.
I can’t be precise about the date as my cine camera had no facility to date and time-stamp when a particular clip was taken, as with modern camcorders.
ISTR that Neil's Zlin was sponsored, but by whom I can't recall, and it was painted as part of this sponsorship deal. The markings on the surface of the wings is similar to other photos I've seen of Neil's Zlin in various publications.
FWIW the film was definitley shot at a September Biggin BoB display, not at an Air Fair, which I never once attended.
My post re-Neil Williams inverted at Biggin states: "at a 1960’s BoB display" (my emphasis) so it was taken any time onwards from 1960 when I acquired my first cine camera which I used regularly until the early 1970's.
I can’t be precise about the date as my cine camera had no facility to date and time-stamp when a particular clip was taken, as with modern camcorders.
ISTR that Neil's Zlin was sponsored, but by whom I can't recall, and it was painted as part of this sponsorship deal. The markings on the surface of the wings is similar to other photos I've seen of Neil's Zlin in various publications.
FWIW the film was definitley shot at a September Biggin BoB display, not at an Air Fair, which I never once attended.
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Re the hunter and Tower bridge:
I used to go to school in central London, just South of the Thames. At the time of the incident, I was in the advanced chemistry lab, doing something involving a test tube and nitric acid......very nearly dropped the bottle as the aircraft went past at some speed (and a lot of noise).
I used to go to school in central London, just South of the Thames. At the time of the incident, I was in the advanced chemistry lab, doing something involving a test tube and nitric acid......very nearly dropped the bottle as the aircraft went past at some speed (and a lot of noise).
Warmtoast...........
Apologies, should have read it more carefully........!!!
Planemike
Apologies, should have read it more carefully........!!!
Planemike
What a fascinating subject. I didn't realize these events had happened at Tower Bridge, whow ! Thanks for the info Albert D, I just heard the recording of the Radio 4 programme. You can download the programme here :
BBC - Podcasts and Downloads - Saturday Live
and the actual part with Al Pollock is from the 14.00 mins point to 21.00 mins.
BBC - Podcasts and Downloads - Saturday Live
and the actual part with Al Pollock is from the 14.00 mins point to 21.00 mins.
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An eye-witness account I posted in the "Flying under bridges, what and where?" thread:
Re. the Hunter and Tower Bridge, I actually had a good view of the event in central London. I was working as a site engineer supervising building of a block of flats near Vauxhall Bridge, in early April 1968. While checking the steel reinforcement of the highest floor slab before concreting, with my eye level about 50 feet above ground level, the Hunter roared past travelling downriver approximately 300 yards away.
I saw it pass over Vauxhall and Westminster Bridges, and very close to the then-new Vickers Millbank tower block. Anyone on the upper floors would definitely have been looking down onto it, and from my own vantage point I saw its full side view! Other tallish buildings then blocked my view of it as it swept towards Tower Bridge, so I didn't see it passing between the lower road deck and the upper pedestrian deck level, but the news media were full of it afterwards.
The newspaper accounts next day claimed that the pilot was due to leave the RAF quite soon anyway, and that he and colleagues were very dissatisfied with the half-hearted way in which the service was celebrating the 50th anniversary of its formation on 1st April 1918. He had accordingly decided to mark the occasion in a more robust and appropriate manner!
I saw it pass over Vauxhall and Westminster Bridges, and very close to the then-new Vickers Millbank tower block. Anyone on the upper floors would definitely have been looking down onto it, and from my own vantage point I saw its full side view! Other tallish buildings then blocked my view of it as it swept towards Tower Bridge, so I didn't see it passing between the lower road deck and the upper pedestrian deck level, but the news media were full of it afterwards.
The newspaper accounts next day claimed that the pilot was due to leave the RAF quite soon anyway, and that he and colleagues were very dissatisfied with the half-hearted way in which the service was celebrating the 50th anniversary of its formation on 1st April 1918. He had accordingly decided to mark the occasion in a more robust and appropriate manner!
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I can confirm the state of morale in the Royal Air Force in 1968. I was a corporal A.Fitt.E at RAF Waddington at the time, but we ground crew took massive pride in our ability to get the job done to the highest standards despite all the crap thrown at us. The same can be said of our aircrews, splendid men who were prepared to fight and die at a few minutes' notice despite the infamous dining-in night.
Truly Per Ardua Ad Astra in the best traditions of the service.
Truly Per Ardua Ad Astra in the best traditions of the service.
Paxing All Over The World
I had not heard the story and found reading it via the link highly enjoyable, as it had much more detail than he could get into the radio time allowed.
My father served at both Tangmere (29 in the start of his service) and West Raynham (141 for the main part) and he also served at some of the other stations that were beaten up. Pity I can't ask him his thoughts about this event. Nor, for that matter, his pilot who was working his way up to Air Commodore at the time of the incident and was closely involved in the introduction of the Hunter. Checking his record, he was officer Commanding RAF Buchan at the time of this Hunter event.
With regards to the two rotating wing things (thanks for the link WHBM) one wonders what the CAA answer would have been if HMQ actually was in the leading machine? I guess that, if she wanted to take the ride, she could!
My father served at both Tangmere (29 in the start of his service) and West Raynham (141 for the main part) and he also served at some of the other stations that were beaten up. Pity I can't ask him his thoughts about this event. Nor, for that matter, his pilot who was working his way up to Air Commodore at the time of the incident and was closely involved in the introduction of the Hunter. Checking his record, he was officer Commanding RAF Buchan at the time of this Hunter event.
With regards to the two rotating wing things (thanks for the link WHBM) one wonders what the CAA answer would have been if HMQ actually was in the leading machine? I guess that, if she wanted to take the ride, she could!
I know that a certain 18 year old (PPL from RAF flying scholarship!) flew a Cherokee (from Biggin Hill) through Tower Bridge in 1970. He was emigrating the next day, but when he returned to the UK five years later, the CAA prosecuted him. I won't name him but I attended school with him in Kingston, Surrey.