RAF Vought Corsairs in WWII?
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RAF Vought Corsairs in WWII?
My wife's grandfather recently passed away. He was a submariner (radio operator) during the war. In the stuff we have been sorting out are a number of files of his days in the Navy.
One of his photos which particularly struck me, from when he did a stint on an auxiliary aircraft carrier (the ones where they bolted on a flight deck to a merchantman), was of a flypast of three Vought Corsairs which are clearly sporting RAF roundels and tail markings.
Now I now of many American types either purchased or loaned to the RAF, but I have never heard of Corsairs being used. Can anyone shed any light on this please?
One of his photos which particularly struck me, from when he did a stint on an auxiliary aircraft carrier (the ones where they bolted on a flight deck to a merchantman), was of a flypast of three Vought Corsairs which are clearly sporting RAF roundels and tail markings.
Now I now of many American types either purchased or loaned to the RAF, but I have never heard of Corsairs being used. Can anyone shed any light on this please?
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Link to copious random internet babble removed, apologies for so lowering the tone.
I still wonder how people manage without google...
(edited in deference to the comments below)
I still wonder how people manage without google...
(edited in deference to the comments below)
Last edited by Agaricus bisporus; 5th Sep 2009 at 00:28.
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You know, I have heard of google. Even used it once or twice. However I valued the opinion of industry experts over copious random internet babble, and chose the direct route. Is it not what these fora are for?
Anyway - thanks for the link.
Perhaps I should expand on the story a little and see if this explains better why I was asking on here.
The vessel he was on (Nairana) was on Russian escort duty in 1944 (I think) and several aircraft types were mentioned on their inventory. American types included. However I didn't see Corsairs mentioned in the list, so I was presuming they were from a different vessel - but possibly not...
Also, I don't recall seeing before what I previously referred to as RAF roundels on ship-borne (i.e. FAA) aircraft. By that I mean overall camouflage paint scheme with roundels which include the white and yellow bands. This is why I thought they were RAF.
Anyway - thanks for the link.
Perhaps I should expand on the story a little and see if this explains better why I was asking on here.
The vessel he was on (Nairana) was on Russian escort duty in 1944 (I think) and several aircraft types were mentioned on their inventory. American types included. However I didn't see Corsairs mentioned in the list, so I was presuming they were from a different vessel - but possibly not...
Also, I don't recall seeing before what I previously referred to as RAF roundels on ship-borne (i.e. FAA) aircraft. By that I mean overall camouflage paint scheme with roundels which include the white and yellow bands. This is why I thought they were RAF.
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This has to be one of those 'spooky' days in life ! let me explain, for some time I have been asking friends of my age to look into their parents photo albums etc for those rapidly disappearing photos of aircraft from history, and asking if they would mind allowing me to copy some ??? Well on this very morning a colleague left a memory stick on my desk containing a few of his fathers photos from his naval career, which he had been keen to show for some time ! I have just looked through them and !!! guess what !!!! see below ! is this FAA ???? it has roundels ??? I know nothing of where or when or what or who, but this lovely man is still well and truly with us so who knows ????
Keith.
Keith.
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Great photo! Thanks. Unfortunately I am not in possession of the photo I was referring to at the moment, but I think it is worth getting hold of it and scanning/posting it here. I'll see what I can do. The only thing I would say is that I think the fuselage roundels were more prominent - larger - than those in the photo above. But in both cases they are proper roundels, and not with the added broad horizontal white bands.
AB - I think you misunderstand me. My comment about google was not a dig at you. I was merely explaining that I chose not to go to google as a first option because I thought there were likely to be too many search results, and a direct post on here would yield better and more accurate results - as you proved with your response. Even if it was from google...
I would have preferred that you removed the sarcastic rolling eyes, rather than the link.
AB - I think you misunderstand me. My comment about google was not a dig at you. I was merely explaining that I chose not to go to google as a first option because I thought there were likely to be too many search results, and a direct post on here would yield better and more accurate results - as you proved with your response. Even if it was from google...
I would have preferred that you removed the sarcastic rolling eyes, rather than the link.
Last edited by nacluv; 4th Sep 2009 at 20:19. Reason: Typos
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Keith - just to add from what I have learned. Your aircraft is definitely FAA - it has the "ROYAL NAVY" script over the serial immediately in front of the tailplane (trust me on that!) and the shadow reveals that it has the clipped wingtips - a FAA mod so the aircraft would fit in the garages below deck. No camo though - or at least it doesn't look like it? I think 'mine' have camo paint schemes.
I have got to get hold of those photos now!
I have got to get hold of those photos now!
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nacluv. I feel excitement in your post ! I zoomed into this photo and thought it looked like Royal Navy as you confirm ! There is a possibility I may get my hands on the original to scan at higher resolution, and maybe talk with the owner to glean more info ??? at a later date.
Keith.
Keith.
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A very short search through anything related with the FAA (let alone wikipedia page on the subject) will show that just about every aircraft shown has roundels. Wiki describes them as the insignia of the service. Every Stringbag you've ever seen carries them, as does almost every Seajet, and everything else in between. Why/how does this come as a surprise? Virtually every aircraft the FAA ever had wore them.
ps. Google is crap. Use webferret instead.
ps. Google is crap. Use webferret instead.
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The FAA operated a total 2,012 Corsairs, none were operated by the RAF as far as I am aware. The FAA Corsairs originally had a camouflage scheme with a Dark Slate Grey/Extra Dark Sea Grey disruptive pattern on top and Sky undersides, but were later painted overall dark blue. Those operating in the Pacific theater acquired a specialized British insignia — a modified blue-white roundel with white "bars" to make it look more like a U.S. than a Japanese Hinomaru insignia to prevent friendly fire incidents.
Some history of the FAA Corsairs here, and photo of original camouflage scheme Chance-Vought Corsair F4Uaircraft profile. Aircraft Database of the Fleet Air Arm Archive 1939-1945
Some history of the FAA Corsairs here, and photo of original camouflage scheme Chance-Vought Corsair F4Uaircraft profile. Aircraft Database of the Fleet Air Arm Archive 1939-1945
Last edited by Brian Abraham; 5th Sep 2009 at 06:13.
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I'm sure that I read an account of the RN's role in the development of shipboard ops in the F4U Corsair. It seems that the USN had difficulty with bringing the F4U aboard carriers due to the poor visibility over it's long nose in the approach attitude. Consequently, the F6F Hellcat became the preferred equipment for the carrier fighter squadrons, whilst the F4U was issued to the USMC for mainly land-based operations. When the FAA got hold of the Corsair they applied the hard-learned lessons of the Seafire and adopted a curving approach to the deck, giving the pilot much better visibility. This technique dramatically reduced the Corsair's landing accident rate and was adopted by the USN, allowing F4U to give distinguished service right through the Korean War and outliving the rival F6F.
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Norwich/Keith, I am fairly sure that your photo shows a Corsair IV of 1851 Naval Air Squadron operating from HMS Venerable in Far Eastern waters during mid-/late-45. Then, the squadron was part of the 15th Carrier Air Group. My copy of "The Squadrons of the Fleet Air Arm" shows this unit's aircraft wearing the 'R6' codes at that time. The 'P' would be the individual aircraft code.
The unit arrived in the Far East just as the war ended and it did not take part in any action. However, it seems it did have a detachment ashore during the re-occupation of Hong Kong.
Just a note on Far East Fleet markings. They did change and there were both small and large roundels. Don't have that reference to hand at the moment.
Hope that helps.
The unit arrived in the Far East just as the war ended and it did not take part in any action. However, it seems it did have a detachment ashore during the re-occupation of Hong Kong.
Just a note on Far East Fleet markings. They did change and there were both small and large roundels. Don't have that reference to hand at the moment.
Hope that helps.
Last edited by lauriebe; 5th Sep 2009 at 09:54.
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Well, here's one (the one) from me. Early scheme I would suggest - camo and large 4-band roundels. The FAA clipped wings are evident too...
I have no date, but I suggest some time in '43 or '44.
I have no date, but I suggest some time in '43 or '44.
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Very probably, but...
This particular vessel is known to have carried Sea Hurricanes, but also Grumman Wildcats, so larger radials were no stranger to her decks...
This particular vessel is known to have carried Sea Hurricanes, but also Grumman Wildcats, so larger radials were no stranger to her decks...
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Chairborne. I am sorry at the moment that is the only photo of corsairs that I have ! but there may be more ! that at the moment are 'lost' !!!
lauriebe. Following your supurb research and comments above, the letter below, in the hand of the donor, will, I am sure, please you ! I rather hope it is readable ????
Keith.
lauriebe. Following your supurb research and comments above, the letter below, in the hand of the donor, will, I am sure, please you ! I rather hope it is readable ????
Keith.
As a young officer I served with several, dare I say "mature", FAA officers who had flown Corsairs in carriers with the British Pacific Fleet in the latter stages of the war in the Pacific.
Without exception they all thoroughly enjoyed their Corsair time, not least since they had come to grips with the special technique required for landing on with the extended nose from their previous experience, and they also greatly appreciated the additional strength afforded to the aircraft by the inverted seagull wings.
As Brian Abraham states, the eventual paintwork scheme was a very distinctive dark blue, much as subsequently used with FAA Skyraiders.
Jack
PS Nacluv - He was a submariner (radio operator) during the war .... known in those days and until the early 1960s as a Telegraphist
Without exception they all thoroughly enjoyed their Corsair time, not least since they had come to grips with the special technique required for landing on with the extended nose from their previous experience, and they also greatly appreciated the additional strength afforded to the aircraft by the inverted seagull wings.
As Brian Abraham states, the eventual paintwork scheme was a very distinctive dark blue, much as subsequently used with FAA Skyraiders.
Jack
PS Nacluv - He was a submariner (radio operator) during the war .... known in those days and until the early 1960s as a Telegraphist