BMA Viscount & DC9 aircraft
I see I went in OH-LYB (BMA colours but Finnish reg) in May 1978 on a midday flight Heathrow-Teesside. Several of the Finnair-registered small DC9s came back and forward over the years. According to another source LYB lasted with BMA from September 77 to December 79, then it went back to Finnair, then returned later to BMA "properly" in 1983 as G-BMAH.
The DC9-10s were an oddball choice for Finnair, they bought them secondhand to replace Convair piston aircraft on domestic services, and didn't find them well suited, hence all the ones they leased out.
I read at the time that Mike went to South Africa with the funds thought needed to buy ONE Viscount, and ended up with the fleet of seven for the same money !
The DC9-10s were an oddball choice for Finnair, they bought them secondhand to replace Convair piston aircraft on domestic services, and didn't find them well suited, hence all the ones they leased out.
Originally Posted by rog747
1972 was the year that MR Bishop popped down to SAA at JNB and bought all 7 of their viscounts and the old sim for a very tiny amount of cash !
bargain 7 viscounts for the price of 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by rog747
1972 was the year that MR Bishop popped down to SAA at JNB and bought all 7 of their viscounts and the old sim for a very tiny amount of cash !
I read at the time that Mike went to South Africa with the funds thought needed to buy ONE Viscount, and ended up with the fleet of seven for the same money...
Yes,
i think the amount was about £100k for the whole lot (7 a/c plus the sim)
so i heard !
the tales of all the ferry flights home over darkest africa would probably make a very good book !
BMA was a true airline with a great history from the late 1930's,(air schools, then Derby aviation in 1949)
the pioneering times...
Originally Posted by rog747
1972 was the year that MR Bishop popped down to SAA at JNB and bought all 7 of their viscounts and the old sim for a very tiny amount of cash !
I read at the time that Mike went to South Africa with the funds thought needed to buy ONE Viscount, and ended up with the fleet of seven for the same money...
Yes,
i think the amount was about £100k for the whole lot (7 a/c plus the sim)
so i heard !
the tales of all the ferry flights home over darkest africa would probably make a very good book !
BMA was a true airline with a great history from the late 1930's,(air schools, then Derby aviation in 1949)
the pioneering times...
Regarding Bournemouth, Tony Merton Jones' book provides (as ever) more information. After Channel went under in February 72, BMA temporarily picked up Southend, Stansted and Bournemouth to Jersey. The first operation out of Bournemouth was Friday March 3 with Viscount APNE. This lasted for just 4 months until the permanent licences came into force, when BMA kept Southend and Stansted, but Dan-Air took over Bournemouth from July 1 with 748s.
Although APNE was coming towards the end of its time with BMA (it went off to Israel at the end of the summer) this was indeed the time the seven SAA Viscounts were coming on line so BMA would have had spare capacity. Evidently though they were not enough as BMA bought another seven prop aircraft the next year, four Viscounts from Lufthansa and three Heralds from South America.
Although APNE was coming towards the end of its time with BMA (it went off to Israel at the end of the summer) this was indeed the time the seven SAA Viscounts were coming on line so BMA would have had spare capacity. Evidently though they were not enough as BMA bought another seven prop aircraft the next year, four Viscounts from Lufthansa and three Heralds from South America.
N4790P
As an aside, I was working for SAA at the time BMA bought the Viscount fleet and there was a story doing the rounds at JNB that BMA pitched up thinking they had only purchased a couple of airframes and an FBS sim to find they had in fact got the whole fleet (plus spares) and the sim!!
No idea whether there was any truth in it but knowing SAR&H at the time, anything was possible.
No idea whether there was any truth in it but knowing SAR&H at the time, anything was possible.
Viscounts from Lufthansa
WHBM
The 4 Viscounts that you mention, although originally delivered to LH, were actually purchased from Nora Air Services (NAS) who were based at Kassel-Calden, Germany.
I seem to remember seeing one at EMA in NAS scheme.
Did NAS also operate Nord Noratlas aircraft, presumably as freighters, or is my memory playing tricks?
The 4 Viscounts that you mention, although originally delivered to LH, were actually purchased from Nora Air Services (NAS) who were based at Kassel-Calden, Germany.
I seem to remember seeing one at EMA in NAS scheme.
Did NAS also operate Nord Noratlas aircraft, presumably as freighters, or is my memory playing tricks?
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I recal flying in a BMA Viscount G-BAPF on many occasions as a Pax, LHR-LBA-LHR during this 1980's. I was so pleased to be flying in a Viscount, and remember those wonderful windows which were so large and those great Rolls-Royce Tynes purring away!
I never worked for BMA, but for a private jet company at LHR, one of our Captain's left in 1989 to join BMA. His name was Johnny Taylor, I remember well the day he joined BMA as it was the day of the crash on the M1 of the 737-400!
Did any of you know Johnny and if so is he still with the airline?
Johnny was ex-RAF (I think) and flew for Falcon Jet Centre at LHR on their Falcon 20F (G-BGOP) for a number of years.
It would be nice to find out if he is still with the airline or moved on, it was 20 years I go, so he may have even retired!
PS
I also flew in the DC-9-32's as well, this time to MME, great old aircraft!
I never worked for BMA, but for a private jet company at LHR, one of our Captain's left in 1989 to join BMA. His name was Johnny Taylor, I remember well the day he joined BMA as it was the day of the crash on the M1 of the 737-400!
Did any of you know Johnny and if so is he still with the airline?
Johnny was ex-RAF (I think) and flew for Falcon Jet Centre at LHR on their Falcon 20F (G-BGOP) for a number of years.
It would be nice to find out if he is still with the airline or moved on, it was 20 years I go, so he may have even retired!
PS
I also flew in the DC-9-32's as well, this time to MME, great old aircraft!
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Midland331: The place is unrecognisable now, and infested with lo-co riff-raff, hen parties sloshed at 0630, carrying inflatable male bits, etc.
I used to take a weekly commute up to EDI on the lovely fully-serviced F70/F100 service. On several occasions on the return leg on a Friday evening, there was a very likeable and attentive (middle-aged) Steward who on more than one occasion would sit down next to me for a while to discuss the wine list in detail and offer recommendations according to what he had available. Very pleasant and helpful chap.
Then EMA turned itself into Chav Central and the fully-serviced schedule was culled in favour of BMI-Baby. I recall seeing this poor chap on the same run, but not in uniform any more - resplendent in jeans and lurid-coloured t-shirt - in amongst the teenie-CC, looking well out of place. I could have cried for him. Discussing the fine points of wine one week, and mopping up puke the next. What a way to go...
From my perspective, it could not have been worse either - I went from paying around £100 for the weekly return trip fully-serviced, to around £350 for the completely-unserviced trip because of how we had to purchase our tickets. Oh, the irony. I was very glad in the end to finish that job.
Sorry about the slightly off-topic post.
chav central lol
slightly off topic yes lol,
but i do suggest you read my 2 posts in ''flybe, what a shower''
sums up chav central and what has happened to flying today...sigh
regards rog
re G-BAPF it was a bummer, always tech lol
but i do suggest you read my 2 posts in ''flybe, what a shower''
sums up chav central and what has happened to flying today...sigh
regards rog
re G-BAPF it was a bummer, always tech lol
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I have the BMA book by BG Cramp, which is very informative. Namely:-
Re: South African viscounts: Mike Bishop was in Israel when he noticed in Flight Magazine the advert for the viscounts. He then went down to S.Africa and was told the fleet was to be sold as a whole and not seperately. He only had board approval to buy 2 viscounts and not 7! Unabashed he decided to offer the same cash amount he had board approval, but for all 7. As we now know, he offer was accepted and the rest is history.
Re; the german viscounts. These were never as reliable or corrosion free as the S.African ones and they appear to have less successful overall.
There's other gems in the book which is a marvellous story of an enterprising independant british airline.
airsmiles
PS: Viscounts had Dart engines, not the Tynes which were fitted to the Vanguard.
Re: South African viscounts: Mike Bishop was in Israel when he noticed in Flight Magazine the advert for the viscounts. He then went down to S.Africa and was told the fleet was to be sold as a whole and not seperately. He only had board approval to buy 2 viscounts and not 7! Unabashed he decided to offer the same cash amount he had board approval, but for all 7. As we now know, he offer was accepted and the rest is history.
Re; the german viscounts. These were never as reliable or corrosion free as the S.African ones and they appear to have less successful overall.
There's other gems in the book which is a marvellous story of an enterprising independant british airline.
airsmiles
PS: Viscounts had Dart engines, not the Tynes which were fitted to the Vanguard.
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LAS1997
Johnny Taylor was, I believe, still flying for bmi ex-LHR.
I left baby two months ago and hadn't spoken to him for a while.
Lovely guy, always had a smile and was always interested in you.
Johnny Taylor was, I believe, still flying for bmi ex-LHR.
I left baby two months ago and hadn't spoken to him for a while.
Lovely guy, always had a smile and was always interested in you.
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Viscount engines
LAS 1977 said the Viscounts had purring Tynes!!
The Tyne never purred, the 14ft 6inc prop made sure of that (Vanguard)
I think he had better revise his memory and use Rolls Royce DARTS which were a very different kettle of fish!!!
tristar 500
The Tyne never purred, the 14ft 6inc prop made sure of that (Vanguard)
I think he had better revise his memory and use Rolls Royce DARTS which were a very different kettle of fish!!!
tristar 500
N4790P
rog747
Just seen your post #22. Goodness knows how I missed it (and others referring to it). Senility kicking in tonight maybe? Apologies for repeating same story.
Just seen your post #22. Goodness knows how I missed it (and others referring to it). Senility kicking in tonight maybe? Apologies for repeating same story.
Do they ever de-ice in South Africa ?
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Agreed WHBM. 15 european winters must be a pretty harsh environment for an aircraft compared to what I presume was an arid, consistently warm life in South Africa. May be maintenance with Nora Air Services wasn't so great either though.
airsmiles
airsmiles
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Tri-Star 500, you are quite correct of course, they were RR Darts on the Viscount, the Tyne was on the Vanguard!
Just back from a visit to the Brooklands museum where they have a Viscount 800 G-APIM, managed to go on board and have a look around with my daughter. The cabin still looks so spacious, and sorry to bang on about the windows, but very big! That musty aircraft smell was still present too! The flight deck was quite small, but lets face it 1950's design and technology.
How wonderful it would be if they could start a Dart up?
This Viscount flew with BEA / Cambrian / BA / BAF before coming to grief in a ground collision with a Shorts 360 in the mid 1980's.
Just back from a visit to the Brooklands museum where they have a Viscount 800 G-APIM, managed to go on board and have a look around with my daughter. The cabin still looks so spacious, and sorry to bang on about the windows, but very big! That musty aircraft smell was still present too! The flight deck was quite small, but lets face it 1950's design and technology.
How wonderful it would be if they could start a Dart up?
This Viscount flew with BEA / Cambrian / BA / BAF before coming to grief in a ground collision with a Shorts 360 in the mid 1980's.
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more names and memories
Believe Johnnie Taylor now working part time and living in Cornwall.
The buy 2 get 5 free Viscount story is correct. As well as the VC8 Simulator and the 7 aircraft was a host of spares including engines, for 105K I think.
Some of the aircraft needed resparring before being put back into commercial use.
Think it was Tony Smallwood not Ian (?).
Jim Shaw, Jim Snee and Hard Ronnie are names that come to mind.
"Keep attacking son!"
The very best of flying and of people it was too.
The buy 2 get 5 free Viscount story is correct. As well as the VC8 Simulator and the 7 aircraft was a host of spares including engines, for 105K I think.
Some of the aircraft needed resparring before being put back into commercial use.
Think it was Tony Smallwood not Ian (?).
Jim Shaw, Jim Snee and Hard Ronnie are names that come to mind.
"Keep attacking son!"
The very best of flying and of people it was too.
yes it was tony smallwood i think, not ian, you are correct!
there was an Ian 'someone' too cant think now lol
barnie concannon
norman brewitt was another,
geoff goodchild yes i remember him, tall chap, very kind
i suppose Tony Belcher was the squadron leader LOL
another lovely chap (tall, balding) flew viscounts took me down to Palma in the middle of the night from LPL one summer for my hols, c1979/80
flying time was about 4+ hours, maybe nearly 5, and he took his dinner down the back in the passenger seats. cant think of his name,
a/c had about 40 pax on (held 73)
oh those were the days
there was an Ian 'someone' too cant think now lol
barnie concannon
norman brewitt was another,
geoff goodchild yes i remember him, tall chap, very kind
i suppose Tony Belcher was the squadron leader LOL
another lovely chap (tall, balding) flew viscounts took me down to Palma in the middle of the night from LPL one summer for my hols, c1979/80
flying time was about 4+ hours, maybe nearly 5, and he took his dinner down the back in the passenger seats. cant think of his name,
a/c had about 40 pax on (held 73)
oh those were the days
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There is a new book out "bmi the story: celebrating 70 years in the business of aviation."
bmi the story:
bmi the story:
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love the post and any dc9, nostalgia always remember, a late sector into /LHR on a nasty winter Sunday as helmets,f/o,a conversation,about ,the sun news paper, leading ,on to how to spend the night leading,to the most bizarre about the stars and the after life, and many things to sensitive to mention here,even after 25 or so, years
,but all those,characters were just that;,as for.engine off taxing,one of them did hit the peer.and one flew a sector in a crash helmet,because the window was cracked,to make a statement to the engineers,with out a thought for depressurisation,irreplaceable times,many names and stories,,TONY SMALLWOOD,i believe is correct,there was a IAN GRAHAM
,but all those,characters were just that;,as for.engine off taxing,one of them did hit the peer.and one flew a sector in a crash helmet,because the window was cracked,to make a statement to the engineers,with out a thought for depressurisation,irreplaceable times,many names and stories,,TONY SMALLWOOD,i believe is correct,there was a IAN GRAHAM
Last edited by much2much; 10th Aug 2009 at 17:20.
yes it was ian graham who flew viscounts and took me to palma one night !
thanks for that!!!
thanks for that!!!