Orville & Wilbur 98 years ago today
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Orville & Wilbur 98 years ago today
If I remember my history correctly it was on December 17th 1903 that the Wright Brothers first flew the "Flyer".
Thanks boys - you gave me something worthwhile to do........
Thanks boys - you gave me something worthwhile to do........
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
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Yes, but were they really the first...?
http://chrisbrady.itgo.com/watson/watson.htm
http://chrisbrady.itgo.com/pearse/PEARSE.HTM
http://chrisbrady.itgo.com/watson/watson.htm
http://chrisbrady.itgo.com/pearse/PEARSE.HTM
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Actually, ETOPS did not claim that they were the first, only that it was 98 years since they flew. But following the theme, you may like to consider John Stringfellow, Clement Ader and Gustave Whitehead. See:
http://www.aopa.ch/xeole.htm
http://www.aopa.ch/xeole.htm
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Recall years ago a Douglas Aircraft magazine advertisement mentioning that the Wright Brothers first flight was exactly the same length as the DC-7C wing span, 127 feet. I wonder what they would say if alive today?
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Doubt if the boys from Dayton would be too too suprised, especially if they had a little time to look at things. Agree some people George Cayley and others may probably have managed to get in the air before December 1903, but the Wrights did it, other people saw it, they developed from there aircraft that really worked in controlled flight and once that happened everybody else working on it knew for a fact it could be done and the floodgates opened.
would either of these guys be able to get a license these days? Solo with only a hour maybe of solo pracatice in gliders obtained 20-60 seconds at a go over a couple years. Not current at all. tisk tisk dare say no medical either. shocking!
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
would either of these guys be able to get a license these days? Solo with only a hour maybe of solo pracatice in gliders obtained 20-60 seconds at a go over a couple years. Not current at all. tisk tisk dare say no medical either. shocking!
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">
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Re the comment above on the DC 7's wingspan, someone pointed out to me that if, on the first flight, Wilbur had taken off from the rear galley of a 777-300, he would have landed before he reached the First Class cabin, (and only barely made it into Business Class)! Another way of looking at it – if he's taken off from abeam the main wheels of the same aircraft, he would have landed less than thirty feet beyond the nosewheel (and probably never reached the height of the main passenger deck).
Add to that the fact that there are still people alive today who were alive when that first Wright brothers flight took place, it puts how far we've come in less than a century into perspective, doesn't it?
Add to that the fact that there are still people alive today who were alive when that first Wright brothers flight took place, it puts how far we've come in less than a century into perspective, doesn't it?
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But the Wright Bros First Flight Nearly Didn't Happen
But it nearly didn't happen (according to this account)
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=76775
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=76775
More on Pearse here - http://www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm - and his flights of 350 yards & 1,000 yards in 1902 & 1903.
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One thing's for sure... champions of every dingbat since Icarus will be crawling out of the woodwork this year to claim that their man/woman/android flew long before the Wrights.
The annoying thing is that most of these people conveniently forget the fact that their heroes were comprehensively debunked at the time, or soon afterwards. Clement Ader is mentioned here... he was discredited by his own side when the official report on the Avion was finally published. Cayley? Pearse? Augustus Herring? Puh-leeze.
There was a widespread movement to discredit the Wrights in the early years of the last century, spearheaded by (among many others) the French, Alexander Graham Bell's faction, Glen Curtis, and the Smithsonian. In the face of all the evidence, they all had to abandon their postions.
The newspapers are going to be full of this stuff for the next year. It's up to every Pprune to stand up for what's Wright.
The annoying thing is that most of these people conveniently forget the fact that their heroes were comprehensively debunked at the time, or soon afterwards. Clement Ader is mentioned here... he was discredited by his own side when the official report on the Avion was finally published. Cayley? Pearse? Augustus Herring? Puh-leeze.
There was a widespread movement to discredit the Wrights in the early years of the last century, spearheaded by (among many others) the French, Alexander Graham Bell's faction, Glen Curtis, and the Smithsonian. In the face of all the evidence, they all had to abandon their postions.
The newspapers are going to be full of this stuff for the next year. It's up to every Pprune to stand up for what's Wright.
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If you define powered flight as 'sustained out of ground effect flight with three axes of control', the first flight was by the Wrights. If you define it less stringently you can possibly argue for one of the others, but, if so, what is the point and significance? I mean, who cares whether the others hoppped off the ground for 50 yards?
The triumph of the Wrights lead to the explosive development of powered flight. None of the others did. End of story.
QDM
The triumph of the Wrights lead to the explosive development of powered flight. None of the others did. End of story.
QDM
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> I'm planning to go to Kitty Hawk in December. Anyone else??
I'm planning to go to the US, but probably Ohio.
Anyone got details of organised events?. I know there are several teams planning to fly 1903 Wright Flyer replicas but I haven't yet see proposed dates (except the obvious one). What about locations other than Kitty Hawk?
I'm planning to go to the US, but probably Ohio.
Anyone got details of organised events?. I know there are several teams planning to fly 1903 Wright Flyer replicas but I haven't yet see proposed dates (except the obvious one). What about locations other than Kitty Hawk?
If you define powered flight as 'sustained out of ground effect flight with three axes of control', the first flight was by the Wrights. If you define it less stringently you can possibly argue for one of the others, but, if so, what is the point and significance? I mean, who cares whether the others hoppped off the ground for 50 yards?
The triumph of the Wrights lead to the explosive development of powered flight. None of the others did. End of story.
Incorrect - Pearse flew about 1,000 yards, mostly out of ground effect on 11-May-1903. The Wrights could not equal that for a some time later.
The triumph of the Wrights lead to the explosive development of powered flight. None of the others did. End of story.
Incorrect - Pearse flew about 1,000 yards, mostly out of ground effect on 11-May-1903. The Wrights could not equal that for a some time later.
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18-wheeler:
Pearse has been debunked so many times it's not worth wasting electrons on him here. His 'flights' are on a par with Moriarty's off the Reichenbach Falls, and his legacy to aeronautics is diddly squit.
To compare him to two men whose incomparable logic and practical skill, whose experiments over a period of years included literally thousands of glides at peril to their lives, who measured lift and drag, who created their own wind tunnel, whose aeronautical tables were impeccable, who fought and debunked Sam Langley's theories, who deduced their way step by step to controlled, manned, powered flight, and who remained for two and a half years the only pilots in the world, is feeble-minded tosh of the first water.
But as Wilbur wrote in the face of the empty claims of Pearse and many, many others: 'It is rather amusing, after having been called fools and fakers for six or eight years, to find now that people knew exactly how to fly all the time. People who had not the least idea of flying until within the last year or two now attempt to write books stating what the situation of the flying problem was in 1900 and 1901, when we made our first experiments at Kitty Hawk. In view of our experiences in 1901 it is amusing to hear them tell that the science of aerodynamics had been reduced to a very exact basis, so that anyone could calculate without difficulty the lift and drift of aeroplane surfaces. After the real truth had been discovered, old experiments seemed to have an importance in value sometimes which they did not have at the time.'
Pearse has been debunked so many times it's not worth wasting electrons on him here. His 'flights' are on a par with Moriarty's off the Reichenbach Falls, and his legacy to aeronautics is diddly squit.
To compare him to two men whose incomparable logic and practical skill, whose experiments over a period of years included literally thousands of glides at peril to their lives, who measured lift and drag, who created their own wind tunnel, whose aeronautical tables were impeccable, who fought and debunked Sam Langley's theories, who deduced their way step by step to controlled, manned, powered flight, and who remained for two and a half years the only pilots in the world, is feeble-minded tosh of the first water.
But as Wilbur wrote in the face of the empty claims of Pearse and many, many others: 'It is rather amusing, after having been called fools and fakers for six or eight years, to find now that people knew exactly how to fly all the time. People who had not the least idea of flying until within the last year or two now attempt to write books stating what the situation of the flying problem was in 1900 and 1901, when we made our first experiments at Kitty Hawk. In view of our experiences in 1901 it is amusing to hear them tell that the science of aerodynamics had been reduced to a very exact basis, so that anyone could calculate without difficulty the lift and drift of aeroplane surfaces. After the real truth had been discovered, old experiments seemed to have an importance in value sometimes which they did not have at the time.'
Pearse has been debunked so many times it's not worth wasting electrons on him here. His 'flights' are on a par with Moriarty's off the Reichenbach Falls, and his legacy to aeronautics is diddly squit.
Debunked? Where? The only people that debunk him often know practically nothing about him or his achievements.
What on earth would YOU call a 1,000 yard flight, mostly out of ground effect, and including two turns?
As for his legacy to aeronautics, he was the first to gain a patent on ailerons.
Please, if you have no idea what you're talking about do not post.
I am not taking anything away from the Wright's acheivements - they have certainly had a far greater effect on aviation than Pearse did - but they simply did not fly with all the appropriate rules that would make up 'the first flight' before Pearse. Someone else may well have flown before Pearse before with those rules, but I have honestly never heard of anyone being close.
Debunked? Where? The only people that debunk him often know practically nothing about him or his achievements.
What on earth would YOU call a 1,000 yard flight, mostly out of ground effect, and including two turns?
As for his legacy to aeronautics, he was the first to gain a patent on ailerons.
Please, if you have no idea what you're talking about do not post.
I am not taking anything away from the Wright's acheivements - they have certainly had a far greater effect on aviation than Pearse did - but they simply did not fly with all the appropriate rules that would make up 'the first flight' before Pearse. Someone else may well have flown before Pearse before with those rules, but I have honestly never heard of anyone being close.
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> As for his legacy to aeronautics, he was the first to gain a patent on ailerons.
I'd be interested to know more. Did Glenn Curtis use this to defend his case with the Wrights?
I'd be interested to know more. Did Glenn Curtis use this to defend his case with the Wrights?