British United Airways Britannia's
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British United Airways Britannia's
I have seen many threads starting with "this is a bit of a long shot but", so I will not say that but I would be very grateful if anyone has any info they could share with me.
My father was posted to RAF Seletar in 1961 and we flew out to Paya Lebar on a BUA Britannia, leaving Stansted on 11th November 1961 and the route was via Istanbul and Bombay (as was). I would really like to try and identify which aircraft was involved as I have faithfully recorded dates, times, registration etc for all the other flights I have undertaken and this one and the return are the only ones for which I don't have anything. I have found out that BUA were operating the following Brits in Nov 1961 G-ANCD, G-AOVI, G-APNA and G-APNB. My question then is this, does anyone on this forum know the whereaboutas of any of these aircraft on the 11, or 12th November 1961, or can you make any suggestions as to how I might find out.
As for the return journey this was also on a BUA Brit on 9th May 1964 with the route being the reverse of that going out. BUA had a greater selection of Britannia's as indicated by the research I have done, possibles being...G-ANCD, G-ANCE, G-AOVI, G-APNB, G-ARWZ, G-ARXA or G-APNA. Same question really, is there any way to eliminate any from this list ie undergoing m,aintenance, or being used on a different route etc.
Any help or information would be gratefully received.
My father was posted to RAF Seletar in 1961 and we flew out to Paya Lebar on a BUA Britannia, leaving Stansted on 11th November 1961 and the route was via Istanbul and Bombay (as was). I would really like to try and identify which aircraft was involved as I have faithfully recorded dates, times, registration etc for all the other flights I have undertaken and this one and the return are the only ones for which I don't have anything. I have found out that BUA were operating the following Brits in Nov 1961 G-ANCD, G-AOVI, G-APNA and G-APNB. My question then is this, does anyone on this forum know the whereaboutas of any of these aircraft on the 11, or 12th November 1961, or can you make any suggestions as to how I might find out.
As for the return journey this was also on a BUA Brit on 9th May 1964 with the route being the reverse of that going out. BUA had a greater selection of Britannia's as indicated by the research I have done, possibles being...G-ANCD, G-ANCE, G-AOVI, G-APNB, G-ARWZ, G-ARXA or G-APNA. Same question really, is there any way to eliminate any from this list ie undergoing m,aintenance, or being used on a different route etc.
Any help or information would be gratefully received.
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BUA Brits
You can try via British Caledonian (BCAL) Reunited. The online portal to connect ex British Caledonian Employee's from around the world. as that site also includes all ex BUA folks as well as Caledonian/BCAL
I can't help as only joined BUA in '65. Good luck.
I can't help as only joined BUA in '65. Good luck.
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My father was an RAF Warrant Officer, working in Signals. We flew out mid 1961 in a BUA Brit and returned in G-ANCD Jan 64.
Here's BUA Brit G-AOVE at Paya Lebar 1962.
BUA Brit taking off. He's put his gear up very promptly-that's because he's showing-off...it's during the 'Singapore Flying club air show-mid 1963'
Love the guy at the side of the runway as well.
Shot taken from G-ANCD during take-off from Paya Lebar-on my way home..Jan 1964
Finally a wet and dismal Stansted. How I hated the UK for awhile!
David Taylor.
Here's BUA Brit G-AOVE at Paya Lebar 1962.
BUA Brit taking off. He's put his gear up very promptly-that's because he's showing-off...it's during the 'Singapore Flying club air show-mid 1963'
Love the guy at the side of the runway as well.
Shot taken from G-ANCD during take-off from Paya Lebar-on my way home..Jan 1964
Finally a wet and dismal Stansted. How I hated the UK for awhile!
David Taylor.
Last edited by Postfade; 18th Sep 2009 at 20:44. Reason: re-instated my pics!
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Well you were not a pax in G-APNA nor G-APNB.
My father left LGW on the 9th to Khartoum & Entebbe in 'NB. On the 12th flew Entebbe - Nairobi - Entebbe in 'NA and on the 14th Entebbe - LGW in 'NB.
At this time they also operated G-AOVE and G-ANCE as well as 'NCD and 'OVI.
He had pleurisy in the May/June of 64, so can't help. At the same time he was flying ATL.98, Viscount, DC-6 and first flight in VC.10 in the April of '64.
Other Britannia's flown that year and into early '65 were: G-AOVA, 'VJ, 'VP,
G-ASTF, G-ANCH and G-ATGD.
Hope you track down the info you are looking for.
POSTFADE - Lovely shots - if memory serves me right, the 'gear up' shot was quite a long way down 02 at Paya Lebar and they had probably been quite flat when the gear went up and then climbed? Very nostalgic!
My father left LGW on the 9th to Khartoum & Entebbe in 'NB. On the 12th flew Entebbe - Nairobi - Entebbe in 'NA and on the 14th Entebbe - LGW in 'NB.
At this time they also operated G-AOVE and G-ANCE as well as 'NCD and 'OVI.
He had pleurisy in the May/June of 64, so can't help. At the same time he was flying ATL.98, Viscount, DC-6 and first flight in VC.10 in the April of '64.
Other Britannia's flown that year and into early '65 were: G-AOVA, 'VJ, 'VP,
G-ASTF, G-ANCH and G-ATGD.
Hope you track down the info you are looking for.
POSTFADE - Lovely shots - if memory serves me right, the 'gear up' shot was quite a long way down 02 at Paya Lebar and they had probably been quite flat when the gear went up and then climbed? Very nostalgic!
Did the BUA Brits need to have the pax seats turned round to face backwards when they were operating the military charters ? Was this for charters for the RAF only or did it apply to army/navy charters as well ?
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I flew in the Brits in '62 and '63 down to East Africa and remember facing forwards. Maybe specific a/c were kept for Troopers with rearward facing seats?
I recall the BUA 1-11's with rearward facing seats.
I recall the BUA 1-11's with rearward facing seats.
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No the commercial Britannias didn't adopt the RAF in facing the seats to the rear, even on 'troop flights'.
Inside G-ANCD on return flight Jan 1964.
David Taylor.
Inside G-ANCD on return flight Jan 1964.
David Taylor.
Last edited by Postfade; 18th Sep 2009 at 20:46. Reason: re-instated pic
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Postfade,
Is the cocoon-like object hanging from the overhead rack in the center of the photo a baby cot, or something else?
Can't say I would fancy being underneath a small child if it got airsick!
Is the cocoon-like object hanging from the overhead rack in the center of the photo a baby cot, or something else?
Can't say I would fancy being underneath a small child if it got airsick!
For those who have old copies of Propliner magazine, a major article on BUA Britannias (they steadily did all operators in turn) is in issue 32, Autumn 1987, which describes how long-haul troop charters were the dominant use from the days of BUA's founders Air Charter and Hunting-Clan, both of whom bought two aircraft each in 1958, the former replacing Avro Tudors on this work. The two fleets merged into BUA at the end of 1959.
The BUA fleet was thus four aircraft by 1961, all surprisingly based at Stansted for troop work. Only after October that year did they start to be used on schedules from Gatwick to Africa, replacing Viscounts. Ex-Hunting Clan APNA and NB were transferred for this work, which accords with GK430's father's experience described above, while two more ex-BOAC aircraft (AOVE and VI) were leased to replace them at Stansted, joining ex-Air Charter ANCD and CE.
Of the May 1964 fleet AOVE was on lease to MEA following a Caravelle accident, while ANCD, CE, AOVI, ARWZ and ARXA were the Stansted fleet. BUA lost the Far East trooping contract to British Eagle in summer 1964, and the fleet was then reduced, although the last Britannia did not leave the fleet until early 1969.
There is of course a lot more detail in the article, but unfortunately none of this answers the original question.
The BUA fleet was thus four aircraft by 1961, all surprisingly based at Stansted for troop work. Only after October that year did they start to be used on schedules from Gatwick to Africa, replacing Viscounts. Ex-Hunting Clan APNA and NB were transferred for this work, which accords with GK430's father's experience described above, while two more ex-BOAC aircraft (AOVE and VI) were leased to replace them at Stansted, joining ex-Air Charter ANCD and CE.
Of the May 1964 fleet AOVE was on lease to MEA following a Caravelle accident, while ANCD, CE, AOVI, ARWZ and ARXA were the Stansted fleet. BUA lost the Far East trooping contract to British Eagle in summer 1964, and the fleet was then reduced, although the last Britannia did not leave the fleet until early 1969.
There is of course a lot more detail in the article, but unfortunately none of this answers the original question.
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In latter half of '64 they took del of G-ASIW and 'IX (VC.10's) which took over the East African run. Equipped with forward freight door for a Combi operation and ability to take F.A.L.'s RR on the inauguaral trip!
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I flew from Stansted to Aden on or about 6/7 October 1963 in a BUA Britannia and it was with rear facing seats, about 11 hours.
We came back around 6/7 October 1964 and were lucky enough to be on one of the recently introduced VC10 trooping flights, about seven hours. Shortly after that it was back to the Britannia as the VC10s were needed for the newly acquired South American routes.
We came back around 6/7 October 1964 and were lucky enough to be on one of the recently introduced VC10 trooping flights, about seven hours. Shortly after that it was back to the Britannia as the VC10s were needed for the newly acquired South American routes.
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Many thanks to all who have so far provided me with information so far. It is fascinating to see the breadth of knowledge on this forum.
Thanks particularly to Postfade for his wonderful and very evocative shots at Paya Lebar. My flight was a little later than the shots you have in Jan 64 but they reflect my memory of some 44 years ago, very well.
Thanks also to GK430 for his help in eliminating some of the possibles.
A quick recap on the info so far :
11 Nov 1964 Outward Flight
G-ANCD
G-ANCE
G-AOVE
G-AOVI
G-APNA Eliminated thanks to GK430
G-APNB Eliminated thanks to GK430
09 May 1964 Return Flight
G-ANCD
G-ANCE
G-ANCH
G-AOVA
G-AOVI
G-AOVJ
G-AOVP
G-APNA
G-APNB
G-ASTF
G-ATGD
G-ARWZ
G-ARXA Eliminated thanks to pjac
So it seems that some have been eliminated but yet more added to the list. Is the above correct, does it accurately reflect the BUA Fleet in Nov 61 and May 64 or have I misinterpreted something?
In response to some of the other posters on this thread, neither of the two Brit that I flew on with BUA had rear facing seats.
Lastly, and slightl;y off topic, I watched the 1962 film "Flight from Singapore" last night. Very poor acting and dreary story line but many great scenes of Paya Lebar with Comets, DC3, etc and also many shots of RAF Changi with 205 Sqn Shackletons, N, L and E in particular. The RAF of course came to the rescue in the shape of Hastings TG561. Ah nostalgia.....
Thanks particularly to Postfade for his wonderful and very evocative shots at Paya Lebar. My flight was a little later than the shots you have in Jan 64 but they reflect my memory of some 44 years ago, very well.
Thanks also to GK430 for his help in eliminating some of the possibles.
A quick recap on the info so far :
11 Nov 1964 Outward Flight
G-ANCD
G-ANCE
G-AOVE
G-AOVI
G-APNA Eliminated thanks to GK430
G-APNB Eliminated thanks to GK430
09 May 1964 Return Flight
G-ANCD
G-ANCE
G-ANCH
G-AOVA
G-AOVI
G-AOVJ
G-AOVP
G-APNA
G-APNB
G-ASTF
G-ATGD
G-ARWZ
G-ARXA Eliminated thanks to pjac
So it seems that some have been eliminated but yet more added to the list. Is the above correct, does it accurately reflect the BUA Fleet in Nov 61 and May 64 or have I misinterpreted something?
In response to some of the other posters on this thread, neither of the two Brit that I flew on with BUA had rear facing seats.
Lastly, and slightl;y off topic, I watched the 1962 film "Flight from Singapore" last night. Very poor acting and dreary story line but many great scenes of Paya Lebar with Comets, DC3, etc and also many shots of RAF Changi with 205 Sqn Shackletons, N, L and E in particular. The RAF of course came to the rescue in the shape of Hastings TG561. Ah nostalgia.....
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nicolai: the objects attached to the hatrack were known as 'Skycots' so you have guessed correctly.
In British Eagle service, the Britannias on trooping did have rearward-facing seats. This might cause puzzlement to the pax on the Glasgow, for example, if the scheduled Brit. went 'tech.' causing a hasty substitution!
I had one flight in an RAF Britannia, from Aldergrove to Lyneham. The sensation of everyone travelling backwards was strange.
In British Eagle service, the Britannias on trooping did have rearward-facing seats. This might cause puzzlement to the pax on the Glasgow, for example, if the scheduled Brit. went 'tech.' causing a hasty substitution!
I had one flight in an RAF Britannia, from Aldergrove to Lyneham. The sensation of everyone travelling backwards was strange.
Rearward-facing seats :
I always imagined that setting these up was a significant task in the hangar, but someone on here a while ago wrote that BUA used to have to do this on the One-Elevens when chartered for trooping work, and then revert for commercial services, and it was a task just measured in a few hours, two fitters and a box of spanners, and often done overnight while on stand at Gatwick.
This was of course in the days before in-flight entertainment was projected on a screen on the front cabin wall !
Skycots :
Old University mate of mine became a translator at the MoD and travelled regularly to Germany, often by BA but on occasion (late 1970s) the departmental beancounter put him on an MoD Britannia Airways 737 troop charter. The first time he saw the skycots, apparently several of them, strung down the cabin, he was amazed (he also had comments on the joys of being stuck there in his business suit at charter 737 pitch between squaddies, squaddies wives, squaddies puking kids, etc !)
I always imagined that setting these up was a significant task in the hangar, but someone on here a while ago wrote that BUA used to have to do this on the One-Elevens when chartered for trooping work, and then revert for commercial services, and it was a task just measured in a few hours, two fitters and a box of spanners, and often done overnight while on stand at Gatwick.
This was of course in the days before in-flight entertainment was projected on a screen on the front cabin wall !
Skycots :
Old University mate of mine became a translator at the MoD and travelled regularly to Germany, often by BA but on occasion (late 1970s) the departmental beancounter put him on an MoD Britannia Airways 737 troop charter. The first time he saw the skycots, apparently several of them, strung down the cabin, he was amazed (he also had comments on the joys of being stuck there in his business suit at charter 737 pitch between squaddies, squaddies wives, squaddies puking kids, etc !)
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Amazing the story Log Books tell. I was so glad to get hold of my father's as I never knew where he was during most of my upbringing!
Parabellum
In early October '64, VC.10 G-ASIW was the sole a/c in the BUA fleet.
Overnight on Oct 4/5 it operated LGW-BAH.
P.M. on the 6th it went back to LGW - did it go to Aden in the transit?
On the 8th, it went LGW - Aden in 6hrs 55mins.
The production flight of G-ASIX took place on Oct 27th - presumably out of Weybridge and flew to Entebbe overnight on Nov 4th.
Postfade
Lucky you got back in Jan '64 because G-ARWZ was ferried back from SIN on three engines on Feb 6,7 and 8th. Total airborne time....28 hrs 10 mins
Digressing somewhat, many seem to think they work long hours in today's era.
Outbound to SIN was STN-IST 8:30 and IST-BOM 7:15 with just the tech stop.
In another airline, one day's work was TLV-ZRH-AMS-ZRH-TLV in 14 hrs airborne and must have had 3 on the ground plus report/brief and basically, no wonder he left after a short stay
Parabellum
In early October '64, VC.10 G-ASIW was the sole a/c in the BUA fleet.
Overnight on Oct 4/5 it operated LGW-BAH.
P.M. on the 6th it went back to LGW - did it go to Aden in the transit?
On the 8th, it went LGW - Aden in 6hrs 55mins.
The production flight of G-ASIX took place on Oct 27th - presumably out of Weybridge and flew to Entebbe overnight on Nov 4th.
Postfade
Lucky you got back in Jan '64 because G-ARWZ was ferried back from SIN on three engines on Feb 6,7 and 8th. Total airborne time....28 hrs 10 mins
Digressing somewhat, many seem to think they work long hours in today's era.
Outbound to SIN was STN-IST 8:30 and IST-BOM 7:15 with just the tech stop.
In another airline, one day's work was TLV-ZRH-AMS-ZRH-TLV in 14 hrs airborne and must have had 3 on the ground plus report/brief and basically, no wonder he left after a short stay
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WHBM
Yup they did reconfig overnight with the frigging APU running, thus keeping all us vigilant ops folks awake in the old Ops Block, b'stards they was
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Hi GK430, (is that a BAC1-11 callsign? I flew Laker 1-11s!)
In that case I must have left Aden on the 8th/9th, definitely a VC10 and we were scheduled into LGW but, due fog, actually landed at LHR and customs went through us like a dose of salts, which, after a year in a rather unfriendly place, we really didn't appreciate!
In that case I must have left Aden on the 8th/9th, definitely a VC10 and we were scheduled into LGW but, due fog, actually landed at LHR and customs went through us like a dose of salts, which, after a year in a rather unfriendly place, we really didn't appreciate!