TAA and the DC-9
interesting reading.......................20 20 hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if he'd only just rotated a bit quicker and a bit more.......................
Now back to the topic of the thread, the DC-9.........very enjoyable read so far boys
brings back a lot of good memories for me
Now back to the topic of the thread, the DC-9.........very enjoyable read so far boys
brings back a lot of good memories for me
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OK.. 'fess up time. How many people can recall (paxing, of course, never as operating crew
) the mysterious momentary AC power loss immediatelly after takeoff that the Deisel 9 was prone to suffering?
It wasn't until I got onto the aircraft myself that I learned what caused these mysterious momentary blackouts.
I'll leave it to someone with a better recall of the after start/pre takeoff switching (or the failure to make said switching!) that caused this problem.
) the mysterious momentary AC power loss immediatelly after takeoff that the Deisel 9 was prone to suffering?It wasn't until I got onto the aircraft myself that I learned what caused these mysterious momentary blackouts.
I'll leave it to someone with a better recall of the after start/pre takeoff switching (or the failure to make said switching!) that caused this problem.
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Maui....didn't say it was a GOOD idea, just a great one.
And I never heard of the power loss after T/O thing.
But....I know a long time back to re-cycle the auto-throttle on the '9 (which was routine) we had to pull the power back to barely level flight thrust sometime during climb then put it back up to CLB thrust again. If you saw contrails off in the distance late in the day you could see the level off segment. A mod removed that need later.
And I never heard of the power loss after T/O thing.
But....I know a long time back to re-cycle the auto-throttle on the '9 (which was routine) we had to pull the power back to barely level flight thrust sometime during climb then put it back up to CLB thrust again. If you saw contrails off in the distance late in the day you could see the level off segment. A mod removed that need later.
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Le Rhone, that last video showed the devine Miss Jan H who is still beautiful, in every way. I have never enjoyed a forum as much as I have enjoyed this one, I thought I was the only one who turned into a dribbling idiot over the 9, so great to see age does not weary her, and she is enjoyed by other generations. Thanks for bringing back such great memories.
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The introduction of the 9 was delayed into TAA service due to the AFAP wanting the tech crew to include an FE as per the 727? I think Reg Ansett offered his drivers more money and got his aircraft introduced before TAA.
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Well remember standing airside as a 10 -11 yr old at OOL, watching 9er's and 72's start up and taxy off, always wondered what the opening at the base of the Vert Stab. on the 9er was for?? Thanks for the oportunity to have stood where I did all those years ago... different bloke but again, you know who you are, and thank you too naturally ........ 
Last edited by Fliegenmong; 9th Jan 2009 at 11:30. Reason: Grammatical check
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Gawd, I was hoping someone would come up with the correct sequence that caused the momentary loss of electrics, which I thought was a well known trap for young players. It wasn’t a frequent occurrence, but certainly happened a number of times when I was paxing on the -9, and I was shown why it happened in the sim. during my conversion. (It was a well enough known trap that the checkie made a point showing it to us.) However, that was many years ago, and my memory could be totally off.
As I recall, it was the FO’s (or PNF’s?) failure to switch the main AC busses from APU to engine generators in his after start scan. I’ve probably got that utterly wrong – standing by for correction from people with better memories than mine. Did the dark occur when the APU was switched off on pushback after start, or, (as my faded memory has it), just after takeoff, when some PFM* box automatically kicked in after gear (or flaps?) were selected up? It was a classic ‘finger trouble’ pitfall, and maui, I doff my hat to you that in 6000 hours, you not only never fell for it, but flew with myriad FO’s who did not do so as well.
Edited to add that I think one of the many air-ground sensor squat switches on the MLG was the catalyst for this event.
* For its vintage, the -9 had quite a few PFM boxes. (PFM = Pure F.. Flaming Magic.)
As I recall, it was the FO’s (or PNF’s?) failure to switch the main AC busses from APU to engine generators in his after start scan. I’ve probably got that utterly wrong – standing by for correction from people with better memories than mine. Did the dark occur when the APU was switched off on pushback after start, or, (as my faded memory has it), just after takeoff, when some PFM* box automatically kicked in after gear (or flaps?) were selected up? It was a classic ‘finger trouble’ pitfall, and maui, I doff my hat to you that in 6000 hours, you not only never fell for it, but flew with myriad FO’s who did not do so as well.
Edited to add that I think one of the many air-ground sensor squat switches on the MLG was the catalyst for this event.
* For its vintage, the -9 had quite a few PFM boxes. (PFM = Pure F.. Flaming Magic.)
Last edited by Wiley; 9th Jan 2009 at 19:52.
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airconditioning pause
Wasn't electrical power change over but airconditioning pack switching to air mode as the gear switch turned off after lift off wasn't it?
I flew her last in March 1982 so my memory might be a little wrong.
I flew her last in March 1982 so my memory might be a little wrong.
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On a lighter note: How did everyone find the crew environment?
Did we have 3 or 4 Hosties? I do remember that Hostie friendliness was proportional to distance from MEL and temperature such that DRW overnights were the best
I believe the F27 had similar properties.
Still see some of them when travelling around on QF 737s - mention a DC9 to a lady of a certain age and you will normally get a misty eyed nostaglic look. Those QF 737-400's have even nicked the regos TJJ to TJU.
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Wiley, It wasn't just the one overnight, usually four shared with the two B727crew (TAA/Ansett) plus MMA F-28 in Darwin that could reduce a grown man to tears.
WILEY.
My response was to your enquiry about an electrical power loss "after takeoff".
Now, "after start" is a different matter. But I don't recall ever being caught by it.
It is my recollection that in the Blue Team, we started with gen switches on. At this point we would have the square blue APU pwr available light on along with the two round button blue lights on indicating APU gen supplying power. On spin up engine gennies would take over and the round blue button lights would go out as the power supply automatically transferred. Transfer was accompaied by a "clunk" but from memory there was no significant loss of lights etc. After start flows REQUIRED a check that the round APU supplying power lights be out BEFORE switching off the APU. Simple procedure which if followed would ensure no black surprise.
We then had a procedure on the first flight of the day to check the AC Crosstie. This would entail switching off one gennie and observing the auto switch over and no lockout. Recollection is that this gave a momentary flicker of various lights and systems, twice. Once when you switched the gennie off and another when you switched it back on. Perhaps this is what you are referring to.
SHERM Sorry, I didn't catch your subtle inflection. Great idea till you look a bit deeper. Must confess I preferred the other method of getting the CofG aft. Closing off the forward toilets to get two or three 100+ kg nordics to stand around the aft dunnies waiting to drain the spuds.
Memories
Maui.
My response was to your enquiry about an electrical power loss "after takeoff".
Now, "after start" is a different matter. But I don't recall ever being caught by it.
It is my recollection that in the Blue Team, we started with gen switches on. At this point we would have the square blue APU pwr available light on along with the two round button blue lights on indicating APU gen supplying power. On spin up engine gennies would take over and the round blue button lights would go out as the power supply automatically transferred. Transfer was accompaied by a "clunk" but from memory there was no significant loss of lights etc. After start flows REQUIRED a check that the round APU supplying power lights be out BEFORE switching off the APU. Simple procedure which if followed would ensure no black surprise.
We then had a procedure on the first flight of the day to check the AC Crosstie. This would entail switching off one gennie and observing the auto switch over and no lockout. Recollection is that this gave a momentary flicker of various lights and systems, twice. Once when you switched the gennie off and another when you switched it back on. Perhaps this is what you are referring to.
SHERM Sorry, I didn't catch your subtle inflection. Great idea till you look a bit deeper. Must confess I preferred the other method of getting the CofG aft. Closing off the forward toilets to get two or three 100+ kg nordics to stand around the aft dunnies waiting to drain the spuds.
Memories
Maui.
Last edited by maui; 10th Jan 2009 at 02:42.
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B772
TN certainly had visit to Tennant when the Isa rwy was blocked by something u/s.
I remember clearly watching the temperature rising proportional to the decreasing chances of us getting off again.
I also was on duty in Op's Control when the 'men in boxes' happened at Rocky & Isa.
DS
TN certainly had visit to Tennant when the Isa rwy was blocked by something u/s.
I remember clearly watching the temperature rising proportional to the decreasing chances of us getting off again.
I also was on duty in Op's Control when the 'men in boxes' happened at Rocky & Isa.
DS
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Dog One
I believe that Reg Ansett allowed an FE to travel on the DC9 even though from where he sat he could do nothing... thus avoiding grounding the aircraft.
The introduction of the 9 was delayed into TAA service due to the AFAP wanting the tech crew to include an FE as per the 727? I think Reg Ansett offered his drivers more money and got his aircraft introduced before TAA.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the u-tube bit via the ABC.
However noticed a number of problems,
1. Noticed the Captain when parking is beloved Holden in the staff car park for free , did not apply the steering wheel lock and used a key like device to lock the car.
2. Noticed Captain or FO did not possess the ASIC card.
3. Noticed the Captain went to a briefing office to do the flight planning via a briefing officer and met man, no PC in those days?
4. Noticed Captain and Fo walk around the aircraft without wearing high visibilty vest,
5. Noticed also that Captain smiled at the lovely FA, and probably muttered some sexist comment,
6. Captain and FO both engaged in conversation with the refueller. I suppose they said to the TWU member, "Bob's a silly old sausage and is a pillow biter, or it out turn to strike this Easter ours or ATC 's turn?"
7. No ATC delay for start, taxi must been a full house in ATC that day.
8. No proper crew briefing in the cockpit, like okay junior you can have the ugly FA and I will have the good looking one.
On a more serious note what was the seating capacity for TAA DC-9?
Did they have a first class or all configured economy?
What about the non-smoking and smoking section?
However noticed a number of problems,
1. Noticed the Captain when parking is beloved Holden in the staff car park for free , did not apply the steering wheel lock and used a key like device to lock the car.
2. Noticed Captain or FO did not possess the ASIC card.
3. Noticed the Captain went to a briefing office to do the flight planning via a briefing officer and met man, no PC in those days?
4. Noticed Captain and Fo walk around the aircraft without wearing high visibilty vest,
5. Noticed also that Captain smiled at the lovely FA, and probably muttered some sexist comment,
6. Captain and FO both engaged in conversation with the refueller. I suppose they said to the TWU member, "Bob's a silly old sausage and is a pillow biter, or it out turn to strike this Easter ours or ATC 's turn?"
7. No ATC delay for start, taxi must been a full house in ATC that day.
8. No proper crew briefing in the cockpit, like okay junior you can have the ugly FA and I will have the good looking one.
On a more serious note what was the seating capacity for TAA DC-9?
Did they have a first class or all configured economy?
What about the non-smoking and smoking section?
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The captain in those days was probably paid around $15000pa. DC9 seated 95. In the last few years of Australian Airlines DC9 ops,smoking was banned. Moveable barriers could be positioned for 1st class as were seat armrests. These could be reconfigured during a turnaround by ground staff.
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Men in Crates
A post earlier today encouraged me to tell of a little known incidend involving TAA DC9s. So, Ppruners,gather around while Uncle Aye Ess tells you of...... "Men in Crates". In a land far away(Rockhampton,Qld), in a time long ago(Tues,Sept 21,1982). Flight TN454 had just arrived from Brisbane. The dilligent & hard working porters were busy unloading baggage,when one got the shock of his life when he saw an arm rapidly disappearing back into a wooden crate. Taa staff assisted a stowaway out of the box & called police. Inside the box was $200,000 in cash(about $1.5 mill today's money). Anyhoo,4 crated men had been consigned in 4 crates on 4 TAA A/c* to 4 destinations,Rocky,Mt Isa,Cairns & Townsville. Also on board those a/c were Reserve Bank bags containing $200,000 destined for Commonwealth Banks. The stowaways also had a quantity of telephone books in their boxes. So during flight they got out of their hidey holes,found the bank bags & swapped phone books for the loot!! The heist failed because the crate the Rocky guy was in was very cramped & hot & he had lifted the lid to get some air when the porter spotted him. The police were waiting at the other ports where they apprehended the other thieves. And,that, my little Ppruners is your bedtime story. *Please note: no TAA DC9s were harmed in the apprehension of the stowaways.