Brand new Wellington bomber?
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Brand new Wellington bomber?
Did anyone see that programme this morning about those guys who built a locomotive from scratch? It cost several million quid to complete. I got to thinking, would it be possible to build a brand new,airworthy, say, Wellington or Hampden or some other rare warbird.Dread to think what the cost would be.
Any thoughts on this anybody?
Any thoughts on this anybody?
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Building a new steam locomotive from scratch might have been a wonderfully quixotic thing to do and I applaud them for it, but while I'm no expert I suspect that building an airworthy replica Wellington would be several orders of magnitude more complex, and not just from an engineering viewpoint!
I think it's one of those problems which may be solvable if the right amount of money and expertise are thrown at it - especially the money!
Still, it would be cool!
I think it's one of those problems which may be solvable if the right amount of money and expertise are thrown at it - especially the money!
Still, it would be cool!
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got no pics but there are messerschitt 262s currently being built.
they have american engines thankfully, i seem to remember the jumos only ran for about fifteen hours before melting!!!
i also heard stories of fw190s with russian radials but i guess something as big as a wimpy would be out of the question
they have american engines thankfully, i seem to remember the jumos only ran for about fifteen hours before melting!!!
i also heard stories of fw190s with russian radials but i guess something as big as a wimpy would be out of the question
It's perfectly possible in principle. A new build Vimy has been built after all.
Some of the recently 'restored' Spitfires are virtually new build. The issue with building totally from scratch is that it would cost as much as restoring an old one, but be worth much less once complete because it would be seen as an imitation.
This doesn't apply with the Me262 and FW190 because the originals are so scarce, like the Wellington in that respect. On the other hand those wealthy enough to buy them normally want something fun to fly so twin engined aircraft are never that popular. Much greater expense and less exciting.
You need an eccentric billionare who already has a Spitfire, Mustang, Hunter etc and now wants something different. If was me the Wellington would be well down the list, after the Typhoon, Mosquito and Hornet.
Or failing that a film company who for some reason needs a Wellington and decides CGI won't do.
A Spitfire costs around £1.5 million to (re)build so I'd guess a Wellington wouldn't leave much change from £5 million.
There was a firm in the US that rebuilt Mustangs in the 1960s for impecunious air forces, I think they built some new ones from scratch as well. Then they hit on the idea of fitting a turboprop engine on them and trying to sell it to the USAF as a front line combat type. The USAF decided against it but they and other forces did look at it closely.
The original Wellington did have endurance of something like 9 hours. So maybe fit your new Wellington with a laser guidance system and it can loiter over the battlefield all day dropping bombs when required.
Perhaps we are on to something here!
Some of the recently 'restored' Spitfires are virtually new build. The issue with building totally from scratch is that it would cost as much as restoring an old one, but be worth much less once complete because it would be seen as an imitation.
This doesn't apply with the Me262 and FW190 because the originals are so scarce, like the Wellington in that respect. On the other hand those wealthy enough to buy them normally want something fun to fly so twin engined aircraft are never that popular. Much greater expense and less exciting.
You need an eccentric billionare who already has a Spitfire, Mustang, Hunter etc and now wants something different. If was me the Wellington would be well down the list, after the Typhoon, Mosquito and Hornet.
Or failing that a film company who for some reason needs a Wellington and decides CGI won't do.
A Spitfire costs around £1.5 million to (re)build so I'd guess a Wellington wouldn't leave much change from £5 million.
There was a firm in the US that rebuilt Mustangs in the 1960s for impecunious air forces, I think they built some new ones from scratch as well. Then they hit on the idea of fitting a turboprop engine on them and trying to sell it to the USAF as a front line combat type. The USAF decided against it but they and other forces did look at it closely.
The original Wellington did have endurance of something like 9 hours. So maybe fit your new Wellington with a laser guidance system and it can loiter over the battlefield all day dropping bombs when required.
Perhaps we are on to something here!
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The Wimpey would pose a few structural problems as it was Barnes Wallis geodetic construction that made it so strong (even if it did bend like a banana on the ground).
Wonder if there's anyone around with the expertise to replicate it.
Wonder if there's anyone around with the expertise to replicate it.
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The group that built the Vimy are hoping to build a Handley Page HP42 replica although it seems to be making rather slow progress.
Imperial Airways - Imperial 42 - Project Information
Dave
Imperial Airways - Imperial 42 - Project Information
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Originally Posted by alvin-sfc
Did anyone see that programme this morning about those guys who built a locomotive from scratch? It cost several million quid to complete. I got to thinking, would it be possible to build a brand new,airworthy, say, Wellington or Hampden or some other rare warbird.Dread to think what the cost would be. Any thoughts on this anybody?
As has been said, most of the Spitfire/Hurricane/P-51 etc restorations are in fact virtual new-build, and there is currently new-build Mosquito's 'on the line' in New Zealand.
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A new Mosquito is being built in New Zealand.
Mosquito Aircraft Restoration, Auckland New Zealand
Mosquito Aircraft Restoration, Auckland New Zealand
Not sure about a Wellington but these folks are building the Fokker D7,
Fokker D.VII for sale!
There is a gent in my town who is building a D7 from plans that he got from somewhere in California. Most of the fuselage is done. He has a Mercedes engine for it and has fabricated some of the items such as the oil tanks and ammunition carriers. Truly a labour of love.
Fokker D.VII for sale!
There is a gent in my town who is building a D7 from plans that he got from somewhere in California. Most of the fuselage is done. He has a Mercedes engine for it and has fabricated some of the items such as the oil tanks and ammunition carriers. Truly a labour of love.
A slight drift.
Anyone recall seeing a short archive film about a Wellington that was produced (from components to a complete & serviceable aircraft) in 24 hours (three shifts)? It was unfortunately lost on operations not long after.
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I didn't see the television programme but I suspect that the locomotive was A1 Pacific 60163 'Tornado'. Whilst I believe the construction was funded mainly by private donations and much of the work was undertaken by volunteers, no doubt some of that cost will be recouped and most of its running costs will be covered by operating mainline steam charters and/or by hires to heritage railways. I can't envisage an analagous situation for a replica Wellington - all it could hope for would be airshow display fees and museum admission charges. I doubt that these would make it a viable economic proposition. What one hears about the Vulcan would, I think, make any level headed person think and think again before contributing - in terms of finance or labour - to a project that probably would end up as a white elephant. To build and fly a military aircraft you have to be either very rich, very foolish or a government body - and the larger the military aircraft, the larger would have to be the rich person's pocket, the fool's ego or the government body's ulterior purpose!
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It was only in the ?late 60s,when Handley Page went,that maybe the last Hampden was scrapped.No one ever thought about conservation then.Also there used to be a Whirlwind,used as a hack at Yeovil,up to the 60s.It seems that whenever a Manufacturer takes over another,it goes to great pains to totally destroy anything left of the former.A good example was when Gloster left Hucclecote, Hawker Siddeley took the contents of the drawing office and burnt the lot on the runway.
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It would be a magnificent thing to do, but I fear that although posssible practically it would be impossible financially, unless some Russian millionaire has got around £20 million that he might want to donate.
Talking of donations I have a fuel tank gauge from a Wellington I would gladly donate....
Talking of donations I have a fuel tank gauge from a Wellington I would gladly donate....
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new Wellington
Although it was did not feature strictly an exact replica there was a film made in 1969 called "The Sky Raiders" in Czechoslavakia. The movie was about the Czech pilots that flew with RAF Bomber Command during WWII. A Czech Air Force Lisunov Li-2 (s/n 23442209, military No. 2209, ex civilian Czech Airlines OK-GAD up to year 1957) played its role in the extraordinary conversion to Vickers Wellington.
The conversion covered the new rudder, the fuselage "coat"
and both the new (fully functional, even with the firing guns!) turrets which were armed with ex-Luftwaffe MG 17 machine guns, found in a Czech AF store!
The engines, props, cowlings, undercarriage and wings remained C-47/Li-2.
The converted plane was not allowed to fly (as the Wellington), but it was able (and cleared to) taxi by its own. One strange feature was the narrow slots in the skin of the fuselage, needed for the original C-47/Li-2 propellers, which were too large for the new "Wellington" fat fuselage. It also featured stock footage of 149 Squad. Wellingtons. Perhaps this may be the way forward!.
The conversion covered the new rudder, the fuselage "coat"
and both the new (fully functional, even with the firing guns!) turrets which were armed with ex-Luftwaffe MG 17 machine guns, found in a Czech AF store!
The engines, props, cowlings, undercarriage and wings remained C-47/Li-2.
The converted plane was not allowed to fly (as the Wellington), but it was able (and cleared to) taxi by its own. One strange feature was the narrow slots in the skin of the fuselage, needed for the original C-47/Li-2 propellers, which were too large for the new "Wellington" fat fuselage. It also featured stock footage of 149 Squad. Wellingtons. Perhaps this may be the way forward!.
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I was an apprentice at BAC Hurn when they were building the replica Vimy & parts were made in the Training Centre. The fuselage structure is the same node repeated with differing tubes between - locked in by bracing wires that also have welded pick up points on the node. Very simple to produce but it took a skilled welder (NOT one of us apprenti) to do the job without messing it up. For any monocoque aircraft the problem would probably be finding someone with the skill to hand roll the skins and the patience to produce all the cleats & ribs.