205 Sqn Shackletons at Changi early 1960's
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WL790
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After the recent retirement of WL 790 Mr McHenry in the US I posted the following on the RAF Forum. Thought it may interest you
VW
WL790
Back in 1967 205 Sdn re-equiped with Mk2 Ph3s and the squadron strength was increased from 8 to 12 aircraft.This involved having 4 aircraft issued initially and then a process of returning each one and fetching a replacement.
I scored a trip back to St Mawgan to act as ground crew on the delivery flight for WL790.The crew was a Check and Training crew to show 205's crews the ropes and owing to the Arab / Israeli conflict we went via Africa. First stop was Malta where we had to stay an extra unplanned night because of a stuff up in our clearance to cross the Congo.Then we headed south over the Sahara following the road until it turned left and we went right to head for Kano in Nigeria.Just after that we hit a pretty horrendous sand storm which woke everyone up.I was sitting in the Sig's seat near the rear door and could not see the wingtips and the noise nearly drowned out the "growl". After landing at Kano a quick walk round A/F revealed that the new paint job was looking pretty ordinary and there was sand in most orifices.However next day we pushed on for Nairobi and on reaching the Congolese border were refused permission to cross along with all other aircraft trying to do the same. Our captain pleaded insufficient fuel for a return so they allowed us to cross within a certain time frame[ not sure how long] and we flew over a pretty scary looking River Congo with jungle and then the Entebbe Mountains when we all went on to oxygen which was something I had not expected to do in a Shack.Two days in Nairobi gave us time to do a 50 hrly and remove most of the sand and also an afternoon in the Nairobi National Park.Then it was on to Mauritius where we stayed in a RN holiday camp right on the beach beside a lagoon with a huge reef 200yds out.We were all hoping for a major snag to occur there but by now we were behind schedule and the captain wanted to push on so off we went for the long haul to Changi with a night at Gan.
After 9 days of being close and personal I formed something of an attachment for "Mr McHenry", as she became known later, so I was very disappointed that she has now been laid to rest.I had hoped that CAA would have allowed her to fly on as I'm sure there were a few hours left in her and the new spar was not an immediate requirement.
VW
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1958 Halton 1961 Cottesmore 1964 32M.U. 1965 Changi[205 sqdn] 1968 32 M.U. 1972 Demob
After the recent retirement of WL 790 Mr McHenry in the US I posted the following on the RAF Forum. Thought it may interest you
VW
WL790
Back in 1967 205 Sdn re-equiped with Mk2 Ph3s and the squadron strength was increased from 8 to 12 aircraft.This involved having 4 aircraft issued initially and then a process of returning each one and fetching a replacement.
I scored a trip back to St Mawgan to act as ground crew on the delivery flight for WL790.The crew was a Check and Training crew to show 205's crews the ropes and owing to the Arab / Israeli conflict we went via Africa. First stop was Malta where we had to stay an extra unplanned night because of a stuff up in our clearance to cross the Congo.Then we headed south over the Sahara following the road until it turned left and we went right to head for Kano in Nigeria.Just after that we hit a pretty horrendous sand storm which woke everyone up.I was sitting in the Sig's seat near the rear door and could not see the wingtips and the noise nearly drowned out the "growl". After landing at Kano a quick walk round A/F revealed that the new paint job was looking pretty ordinary and there was sand in most orifices.However next day we pushed on for Nairobi and on reaching the Congolese border were refused permission to cross along with all other aircraft trying to do the same. Our captain pleaded insufficient fuel for a return so they allowed us to cross within a certain time frame[ not sure how long] and we flew over a pretty scary looking River Congo with jungle and then the Entebbe Mountains when we all went on to oxygen which was something I had not expected to do in a Shack.Two days in Nairobi gave us time to do a 50 hrly and remove most of the sand and also an afternoon in the Nairobi National Park.Then it was on to Mauritius where we stayed in a RN holiday camp right on the beach beside a lagoon with a huge reef 200yds out.We were all hoping for a major snag to occur there but by now we were behind schedule and the captain wanted to push on so off we went for the long haul to Changi with a night at Gan.
After 9 days of being close and personal I formed something of an attachment for "Mr McHenry", as she became known later, so I was very disappointed that she has now been laid to rest.I had hoped that CAA would have allowed her to fly on as I'm sure there were a few hours left in her and the new spar was not an immediate requirement.
VW
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1958 Halton 1961 Cottesmore 1964 32M.U. 1965 Changi[205 sqdn] 1968 32 M.U. 1972 Demob
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205 Squadron
Another of my posts from the RAF Forum
I was going through a box of gash stuff up in my roof when I found the programme of events to celebrate 205's 50th anniversary back in 1966 and thought you chaps might be interested.I remember it was a good party that spread over a couple of days.I also found a photo of the whole squadron posed in front of 2 Shacks.
The guest of honour was Gp Capt G.E. Livock D.F.C. A.F.C. who was the first Squadron Commander in the Far East taking over on 8JAN1929. He was a nice old chap and a bit apprehensive of all the fuss. Earlier in the year, on a detachment to Labuan, I remember we flew over the Spratly Islands and claimed an unnamed triangular reef and named it Livock Reef in his honour.He had an illustrious career beginning in 1914 and seemed to have spent his whole time on flying boats and seaplanes.He was 2nd i/c to Gp Capt Cave-Brown-Cave on the Great Far East Flight in 1927/8 when 4 Southamptons flew from Felixstowe to Seletar and then on to Australia where they circumnavigated the continent and then flew back to Seletar, 23,00 miles altogether.
He was Reviewing Officer for the parade with Wg Cmdr J.V.E.P. Carter as Parade Commander,Adj was Flt Lt L. Bruce, Flt Cmdrs were S/Ls S.W.R.A. Key and G.J.Page,Standard Bearer was F/O M.G.Christy,Standard W/O was Master Signaller B.Collington and the escorts were Sgts H.R.Parkinson and K.J. MacBrayne in case you remember some of them.
We had a celebratory dinner at the Ocean Park Hotel in Katong which I think at that time was on the beach but is now probably a couple of miles inland if it is still there.
There are lots of ads for shops in Changi Village and these may jog some memories--- Khian Whatt Grocers, A.T. Gnanaprakasam Newsagent/Stationer, Tong Sing Bar[ who can forget it], Chew Cheong Jewellers, George Photo Store, Sincere Sundry Shop,Kiam Sin Tailor,Jong Sing Tailor, Sin May Silver, and one for Jackie's bowl at Katong.
There is also a list of all Sqd C/Os and a potted squadron history if anyone wants a look up.
I hope this is of some interest
__________________
I was going through a box of gash stuff up in my roof when I found the programme of events to celebrate 205's 50th anniversary back in 1966 and thought you chaps might be interested.I remember it was a good party that spread over a couple of days.I also found a photo of the whole squadron posed in front of 2 Shacks.
The guest of honour was Gp Capt G.E. Livock D.F.C. A.F.C. who was the first Squadron Commander in the Far East taking over on 8JAN1929. He was a nice old chap and a bit apprehensive of all the fuss. Earlier in the year, on a detachment to Labuan, I remember we flew over the Spratly Islands and claimed an unnamed triangular reef and named it Livock Reef in his honour.He had an illustrious career beginning in 1914 and seemed to have spent his whole time on flying boats and seaplanes.He was 2nd i/c to Gp Capt Cave-Brown-Cave on the Great Far East Flight in 1927/8 when 4 Southamptons flew from Felixstowe to Seletar and then on to Australia where they circumnavigated the continent and then flew back to Seletar, 23,00 miles altogether.
He was Reviewing Officer for the parade with Wg Cmdr J.V.E.P. Carter as Parade Commander,Adj was Flt Lt L. Bruce, Flt Cmdrs were S/Ls S.W.R.A. Key and G.J.Page,Standard Bearer was F/O M.G.Christy,Standard W/O was Master Signaller B.Collington and the escorts were Sgts H.R.Parkinson and K.J. MacBrayne in case you remember some of them.
We had a celebratory dinner at the Ocean Park Hotel in Katong which I think at that time was on the beach but is now probably a couple of miles inland if it is still there.
There are lots of ads for shops in Changi Village and these may jog some memories--- Khian Whatt Grocers, A.T. Gnanaprakasam Newsagent/Stationer, Tong Sing Bar[ who can forget it], Chew Cheong Jewellers, George Photo Store, Sincere Sundry Shop,Kiam Sin Tailor,Jong Sing Tailor, Sin May Silver, and one for Jackie's bowl at Katong.
There is also a list of all Sqd C/Os and a potted squadron history if anyone wants a look up.
I hope this is of some interest
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Hi ozleckie,I lived on East Coast Road when at Changi '64-66 and Jackie's Bowl at the Ocean Park Hotel was a regular haunt of mine
You will remember this place in Changi village as well as Changi Bus.I'm typing this at the side of my camphor wood chest at the mo
The Changi bus ticket is upside down like their buses were in monsoon drains.
You will remember this place in Changi village as well as Changi Bus.I'm typing this at the side of my camphor wood chest at the mo
The Changi bus ticket is upside down like their buses were in monsoon drains.
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Ozleckie,
Regarding WL790, flying Shackletons and the CAA...
In CAA literature there's a reference regarding military aircraft and how they won't extend the life beyond that originally specified by the manufacturer. I can't remember offhand which CAP it is in.
All the 8 sqn AEWS had around 14,000 hours on them which put them more or less at that limit. WL790 and WR963 were both around the 15,000 mark.
The obvious way to overcome this was to get it on the US register under the experimental category, and fly her out there while the paperwork over here was sorted. She was registered as N790WL and it was hoped to bring her back; but it wasn't to be.
Interestingly, the CAA never actually said "you can't fly it!" of the Shackleton, just that if it was to go on a permit to fly, a lot of lifed components had to be replaced. Spar booms, webs, all the attachment hardware, undercarraige bearers...
It's the same reason why we can't fly WR963 either.
Regards,
Rich
Regarding WL790, flying Shackletons and the CAA...
In CAA literature there's a reference regarding military aircraft and how they won't extend the life beyond that originally specified by the manufacturer. I can't remember offhand which CAP it is in.
All the 8 sqn AEWS had around 14,000 hours on them which put them more or less at that limit. WL790 and WR963 were both around the 15,000 mark.
The obvious way to overcome this was to get it on the US register under the experimental category, and fly her out there while the paperwork over here was sorted. She was registered as N790WL and it was hoped to bring her back; but it wasn't to be.
Interestingly, the CAA never actually said "you can't fly it!" of the Shackleton, just that if it was to go on a permit to fly, a lot of lifed components had to be replaced. Spar booms, webs, all the attachment hardware, undercarraige bearers...
It's the same reason why we can't fly WR963 either.
Regards,
Rich
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I think you may be out of luck Neptune. I'd guess the pics have been removed from the host site by the poster (unintentionally perhaps) or the time-out on the host site has expired. Either way - no pics.
This, to me, is a huge weakness of the internet. Pprune is a good example. There are some great photographs on this site which will slowly disappear over the years due to 'time out' above.
This, to me, is a huge weakness of the internet. Pprune is a good example. There are some great photographs on this site which will slowly disappear over the years due to 'time out' above.
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Sorry guys,
I started this thread but discovered that my photos were appearing in 'other peoples books' without even a credit, so after awhile I had started removing them...I had also supposed the thread was 'time expired' to be honest.
I have now re-instated them, but suggest if you are interested in 'early 60's Changi, Paya Lebar and Seletar' that you occasionally drop by my own website at www.focalplanes.co.uk
I've so many pics that I thought a regular 'blog' was the best way of showing them and I 'do video' now as well
David Taylor
I started this thread but discovered that my photos were appearing in 'other peoples books' without even a credit, so after awhile I had started removing them...I had also supposed the thread was 'time expired' to be honest.
I have now re-instated them, but suggest if you are interested in 'early 60's Changi, Paya Lebar and Seletar' that you occasionally drop by my own website at www.focalplanes.co.uk
I've so many pics that I thought a regular 'blog' was the best way of showing them and I 'do video' now as well
David Taylor
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The Changi bus ticket is upside down like their buses were in monsoon drains
Between 1966 and '68, my wife and I lived in a hiring in Katong...it was a flat in Rose Garden. We used to take the Changi bus up to the beach at Bedok Junction at the weekends, because it was the cheapest and easiest way to get there. When the bus arrived at the stop, it was every man and woman for themselves. The Singaporeans of that time had no sense of forming an orderly queue. They all made for the entrance at the same time and pushed and shoved to elbow their way on board. Eventually, we learned to do the same. Then it was a bone-shaker ride, while trying to avoid the monstrous roaches roaming through the rubbish on the floor. Going to and from my section at Changi each day, I was able to take a pickup taxi, which was a lot better....you made new friends every mile!
We liked the Coq D'Or in Katong for a nice intimate dinner night out....air-flown Australian fillet steaks served sizzling on a hot cast iron platter. Have never tasted such good steaks since then.
I visited there some 20 years later, and yes Katong was a quite a way inland. Also, it has been drastically cleaned up (monsoon drains all covered over) and is now an elite high-end residential area. Bedok Junction is also inland...no more beach there either!
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Waddo,
We usually do aircraft photos here....but just for a change, here's a Singapore bus, circa 1962. On the Tampines Road as I was just returned from Paya Lebar after walking through the kampong.
We usually do aircraft photos here....but just for a change, here's a Singapore bus, circa 1962. On the Tampines Road as I was just returned from Paya Lebar after walking through the kampong.
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Waddo.
Did you ever have an outdoor meal at Bedok Corner? Prawns as big as sardines etc.
Those were the days.And it will all be inland now I suppose.
John.
What a great photo of Changi Bus,they all had Leyland engines and weren't as posh as the Isuzus of Singapore Traction which were air-conditioned.You had to watch for betelnut chewing Tamils clearing their throats and letting fly out of the open windows,heading straight for your open window..........................
Did you ever have an outdoor meal at Bedok Corner? Prawns as big as sardines etc.
Those were the days.And it will all be inland now I suppose.
John.
What a great photo of Changi Bus,they all had Leyland engines and weren't as posh as the Isuzus of Singapore Traction which were air-conditioned.You had to watch for betelnut chewing Tamils clearing their throats and letting fly out of the open windows,heading straight for your open window..........................
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Sheer nostalgia...
Aaahh, memories of R.A.F. Changi and Singapore 1959-1962 (with a six month detachment to Labuan thrown in).
What a fine thread ! Even a picture of a Changi Rattler... memories there of catching the Saturday night Changi flyer which left the Capitol terminus at midnight... flying through the then Changi Hills at a zillion miles an hour was somewhat terrifying with the transmission screaming away ! Changi Hills no longer there, all used for land reclamation before they started importing fill from Batam Island. Sections of Tampines Road are still there but most of the old road is gone. The old Telok Paku Road now a dead end and the new road skirts around onto reclaimed land all the way around the airport.
Back then, on occasional visits to 205, my Norton Dominator liked the taste of green fuel straight from a Shack's nipple, when visiting for modification work ! I was in the ASF at Changi and doing mods. for a year, working on all the transport types in the Far East fleet, then posted to Labuan which was a delightful place to be stuck in for six-months. Then back to Changi and Inspections and Rectifications on Hastings, Valettas and Shacks. We even had a Beverley there once which became a Christmas Tree until eventually all the spares arrived on a Queen Mary including three out of storage engines. The test flight was something else. The three "out of storage engines" all failed due to moisture in their bearings and the last of the three was shut down on short finals. She had to be towed in.
Then there were the Dan Air Avro Yorks doing the Australia run with rockets and rocket fuel. They were always heavily laden outbound and sometimes the tractor would follow and drag the tailwheel back onto the grass at the Tanah Merah Besar end of the runway as they always took off to the N-E and needed every bit of runway. We always stood outside to watch the take-off and all eyes were on the wing as it flexed upwards taking the load as it lifted off just clear of the Telok Paku Road and over the mangroves and out to sea. On their way back to the U.K. the F/E's used to sort through our scrap tyres and take a few back as it was either the Hastings or Shack tyres which were the same size. One York crumpled a wingtip against our hangar and of all things, Seletar had a Lancaster wingtip still in store and we fitted that !
I recall the Meteor TT Flight being there while I was in ASF before I left in '62. There was a Beaufighter Mk.10 there to do the job when I first arrived but I can't recall seeing it flying.
The old Changi Village is no more, they had a fire there and now the buildings are all brick and concrete. The only remaining buildings I recall being there in 59-62 were the AMWD labourers terrace houses at the back on the western side which are now fully refurbished and rented out to expats. The old RAF Changi Creek Transit Hotel is now beautifully restored as a Sports Club and the old stained wooden doors and interior still preserved. The old rain trees in the village are the same, just bigger. Remnants of the old camp are still there but gradually disappearing. I last went to Block 151 about ten years ago and the WWII wall paintings were still there but the three floors have been partitioned off. The RAF "Stores" building with the "saw-tooth" roof is still there next to the village.
Even a photo from the cockpit of an Argosy ! Nostalgia indeed....
DB
What a fine thread ! Even a picture of a Changi Rattler... memories there of catching the Saturday night Changi flyer which left the Capitol terminus at midnight... flying through the then Changi Hills at a zillion miles an hour was somewhat terrifying with the transmission screaming away ! Changi Hills no longer there, all used for land reclamation before they started importing fill from Batam Island. Sections of Tampines Road are still there but most of the old road is gone. The old Telok Paku Road now a dead end and the new road skirts around onto reclaimed land all the way around the airport.
Back then, on occasional visits to 205, my Norton Dominator liked the taste of green fuel straight from a Shack's nipple, when visiting for modification work ! I was in the ASF at Changi and doing mods. for a year, working on all the transport types in the Far East fleet, then posted to Labuan which was a delightful place to be stuck in for six-months. Then back to Changi and Inspections and Rectifications on Hastings, Valettas and Shacks. We even had a Beverley there once which became a Christmas Tree until eventually all the spares arrived on a Queen Mary including three out of storage engines. The test flight was something else. The three "out of storage engines" all failed due to moisture in their bearings and the last of the three was shut down on short finals. She had to be towed in.
Then there were the Dan Air Avro Yorks doing the Australia run with rockets and rocket fuel. They were always heavily laden outbound and sometimes the tractor would follow and drag the tailwheel back onto the grass at the Tanah Merah Besar end of the runway as they always took off to the N-E and needed every bit of runway. We always stood outside to watch the take-off and all eyes were on the wing as it flexed upwards taking the load as it lifted off just clear of the Telok Paku Road and over the mangroves and out to sea. On their way back to the U.K. the F/E's used to sort through our scrap tyres and take a few back as it was either the Hastings or Shack tyres which were the same size. One York crumpled a wingtip against our hangar and of all things, Seletar had a Lancaster wingtip still in store and we fitted that !
I recall the Meteor TT Flight being there while I was in ASF before I left in '62. There was a Beaufighter Mk.10 there to do the job when I first arrived but I can't recall seeing it flying.
The old Changi Village is no more, they had a fire there and now the buildings are all brick and concrete. The only remaining buildings I recall being there in 59-62 were the AMWD labourers terrace houses at the back on the western side which are now fully refurbished and rented out to expats. The old RAF Changi Creek Transit Hotel is now beautifully restored as a Sports Club and the old stained wooden doors and interior still preserved. The old rain trees in the village are the same, just bigger. Remnants of the old camp are still there but gradually disappearing. I last went to Block 151 about ten years ago and the WWII wall paintings were still there but the three floors have been partitioned off. The RAF "Stores" building with the "saw-tooth" roof is still there next to the village.
Even a photo from the cockpit of an Argosy ! Nostalgia indeed....
DB
Last edited by David Billings; 2nd Jul 2010 at 00:17.
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Singapore 1951
Most of us that served in Malaya and Singapore will probably always
hold fond memories of our time out there.
At one of the Shoreham annual air shows the RAF Association had a stall
in which could be obtained copies of their magazine entitled 'CHANGI-ITE'
or similar title. obviously of special interest for all RAF personnel who served there. Hopefully still in existance and presumably further
details could be obtained from the Shoreham based RAF Assn - for those interested.
...
hold fond memories of our time out there.
At one of the Shoreham annual air shows the RAF Association had a stall
in which could be obtained copies of their magazine entitled 'CHANGI-ITE'
or similar title. obviously of special interest for all RAF personnel who served there. Hopefully still in existance and presumably further
details could be obtained from the Shoreham based RAF Assn - for those interested.
...
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Instead of continually starting threads here to post my 60's Changi photos, I started a website:
www.focalplanes.co.uk
Scroll back through the posts and 'previous pages'....you might even enjoy the 'modern video' that I've added as well.
Comments welcome
David
www.focalplanes.co.uk
Scroll back through the posts and 'previous pages'....you might even enjoy the 'modern video' that I've added as well.
Comments welcome
David
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Hi,
Interested to see your piccie of a 205 Shack.I was a Sgt Air Signaller on 205 Sqdn from DEc 1957 until June 1960.I was a member of the crew that found the grave of the Engineer of B that crashed north of Labuan in Dec 1958.
I would be happy to help in your research in any way that I can.
Ken Topaz Flt.Lt RAF (Retd)
Interested to see your piccie of a 205 Shack.I was a Sgt Air Signaller on 205 Sqdn from DEc 1957 until June 1960.I was a member of the crew that found the grave of the Engineer of B that crashed north of Labuan in Dec 1958.
I would be happy to help in your research in any way that I can.
Ken Topaz Flt.Lt RAF (Retd)
