Favourite British classic
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Both were too late for their time. However, I am rather partial to Flying Boats so would come out in favour of the Princess. This is not a technical evaluation, but rather an emotional one.
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For purely aesthetic reasons, I'd plump for the Princess as well, a truly beautiful aircraft and I'd love to have seen her flying. What a shame they didn't preserve one. The Brabazon didn't do it for me.
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Great pictures GBZ. There really is something "not British" about the look of the Brabazon. To me it just does not fit the "if it looks right, it is right" criteria.
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Was the range of Princess and Brabazon ever measured in flight testing?
Also, Martin Mars has carried as many ticketed passengers as Saunders-Roe Princess (zero for both) but it is still fighting fires. Could a Princess be good for firefighting?
Also, Martin Mars has carried as many ticketed passengers as Saunders-Roe Princess (zero for both) but it is still fighting fires. Could a Princess be good for firefighting?
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The Martin Mars may not have fulfilled the passenger role, but the five boats produced (Philippine Mars, Marianas Mars, Caroline Mars, Hawaii Mars, Marshall Mars) did transport freight over a period of some eleven years.
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Sadly, the remaining Princess airframes were disposed of in the late '60s. I believe that Airbus did consider them as A300 assembly transporters but chose the Super Guppy option instead. Seems hard to imagine, considering Hawarden (and later, Filton) being landlocked.
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Princess specifications
Wingspan 66,9 m
reference wing area 466 square m
planned MTOW 156,5 tons.
Sounds that Princess has a rather large wing loading and fast takeoff and cruise speed compared to other flying boats.
How much runway does Princess need? How well does Princess handle crosswinds on a narrow runway? And how deep does a Princess runway need to be?
Would any stretch of the Garonne at Toulouse be a suitable airport for Princess?
reference wing area 466 square m
planned MTOW 156,5 tons.
Sounds that Princess has a rather large wing loading and fast takeoff and cruise speed compared to other flying boats.
How much runway does Princess need? How well does Princess handle crosswinds on a narrow runway? And how deep does a Princess runway need to be?
Would any stretch of the Garonne at Toulouse be a suitable airport for Princess?
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When I was going to college in Southampton in the early 70s there was still a lone Princess fuselage section (back to just aft of the cockpit) on the beach in front of the original Supermarine factory at Woolston. Anyone know what happened to it?
The Princess hull design still flies - it was the basis for the CL215/415 waterbomber.
The Princess hull design still flies - it was the basis for the CL215/415 waterbomber.
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Rather liked the Brabazon, thought it had much in common re looks with the Republic XF-12 Rainbow XF-12 Rainbow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Really makes one ask the question...
What on earth were we thinking of.... ?
The cost of the Brabazon hangar alone
I agree a big shame the Princess wasn't adopted in the 'luxury cruise-liner' style though, maybe hopping (if that's an appropriate term for something so large) from seabord-to-seabord, Caribbean island to island..
Didn't realise how good-looking she was, until reading this thread just now - and I did see her from a distance as a youngster from Cowes I imagine...
What on earth were we thinking of.... ?
The cost of the Brabazon hangar alone
I agree a big shame the Princess wasn't adopted in the 'luxury cruise-liner' style though, maybe hopping (if that's an appropriate term for something so large) from seabord-to-seabord, Caribbean island to island..
Didn't realise how good-looking she was, until reading this thread just now - and I did see her from a distance as a youngster from Cowes I imagine...
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I saw both.
As a kid I remember the incredible noise of the Brabazon [up close and personal at Heathrow] and its slug like speed when airborne. The Princess seemed to have a fair turn of speed for such a large machine [Farnborough - always beautifully displayed]
YouTube - Saro Princess fly-by
As a kid I remember the incredible noise of the Brabazon [up close and personal at Heathrow] and its slug like speed when airborne. The Princess seemed to have a fair turn of speed for such a large machine [Farnborough - always beautifully displayed]
YouTube - Saro Princess fly-by
Last edited by aviate1138; 21st Jul 2008 at 07:18. Reason: add youtube clip
Probably one of the best measures, as with most things in the real world (as distinct from the parallel universe the Brabazon committee seemed to inhabit), is how much money the manufacturer gets from its customers in revenue for its delivered products.
Brabazon = 0
Princess = 0
So a tie !
Brabazon = 0
Princess = 0
So a tie !
Didn't handle that too well then at Filton.
Only built 85 Britannias and yet they felt they had to set up a second assembly line at Shorts in Befast.
10 UK Concordes turned out, taking nearly a decade to do so.
Anything else built after the Brabazon ?
Only built 85 Britannias and yet they felt they had to set up a second assembly line at Shorts in Befast.
10 UK Concordes turned out, taking nearly a decade to do so.
Anything else built after the Brabazon ?