Brand new Bombers flown into the sea??? Myth or reality?
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Scuttling Sunderlands
Hi,
On the subject of Sunderlands, I've just been reading an Admiralty file at the National Archives about this very subject. They were consulted by the Air Ministry on plans to sink aircraft during 1944 - and rightly questioned why the material wasn't going back into the war effort.
Areas proposed were Moray Firth, Loch Ryan and Firth of Clyde which brought objections because they were too shallow and one interfered with a submarine telegraph cable
Their Lordships consulted with the fisheries people - who had strong objections to their nets being fouled - and came up with a suggestion that aircraft would be best sunk in areas either too deep for fishing (200+ fathoms, west of Hebrides) or close inshore in shallow water with a rocky seabed where fishing was impossible.
The Admiralty said "As a matter of principle, any fouling of the seabed is to be deprecated where the depth of water is less than 200 fathoms.", although a list of locations at 6 fathoms (presumably rocky seabed) were proposed at the same time.
The plan was to sink 24 obsolete aircraft but, because of the long debate, the advantage of the scheme was being lost and the file ends without it being clear whether any aircraft were ever sunk.
However, it does establish that the principle was accepted by the Air Ministry and the Admiralty.
Oh, and the method of scuttling was to be by small explosive charge.
It is an interesting file
Allan
On the subject of Sunderlands, I've just been reading an Admiralty file at the National Archives about this very subject. They were consulted by the Air Ministry on plans to sink aircraft during 1944 - and rightly questioned why the material wasn't going back into the war effort.
Areas proposed were Moray Firth, Loch Ryan and Firth of Clyde which brought objections because they were too shallow and one interfered with a submarine telegraph cable
Their Lordships consulted with the fisheries people - who had strong objections to their nets being fouled - and came up with a suggestion that aircraft would be best sunk in areas either too deep for fishing (200+ fathoms, west of Hebrides) or close inshore in shallow water with a rocky seabed where fishing was impossible.
The Admiralty said "As a matter of principle, any fouling of the seabed is to be deprecated where the depth of water is less than 200 fathoms.", although a list of locations at 6 fathoms (presumably rocky seabed) were proposed at the same time.
The plan was to sink 24 obsolete aircraft but, because of the long debate, the advantage of the scheme was being lost and the file ends without it being clear whether any aircraft were ever sunk.
However, it does establish that the principle was accepted by the Air Ministry and the Admiralty.
Oh, and the method of scuttling was to be by small explosive charge.
It is an interesting file
Allan
Getting back to the Argosy booms being made out of Meteor fuselages; when I did the manufacturers course at Baginton with Whitworth Glosters (as they were at that time) in 1962, the instructors readily admitted that the wing structure was based on the Shackleton but denied the Meteor connection.
One day we went over to Bitteswell to look at the complete aircraft and we asked why it was that the booms were the only parts of the airframe that were flush-rivetted!
It was eventually admitted, with some reluctance, that modified Meteor jigs had indeed been used. After all, Armstrong Whitworths (as they were then) built most of the Meteor night fighters.
One day we went over to Bitteswell to look at the complete aircraft and we asked why it was that the booms were the only parts of the airframe that were flush-rivetted!
It was eventually admitted, with some reluctance, that modified Meteor jigs had indeed been used. After all, Armstrong Whitworths (as they were then) built most of the Meteor night fighters.
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Don't know what happened to our Lancs. But on V.J night we ran out of wood for our bonfire and had to use the mess grand piano. After recovering. we dumped all the unused bombs in the North Sea. Used up the fuel by taking ground staff and W.A.A.Fs on Rhur tours. Later at Burtonwood, I witnessed the arrival of many Flying Fortresses, which were quickly hoisted by crane on to a large heap
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1946 - my (then teenage) Dad was about to cross the street in southern Sydney when a convoy of trucks rumbled past, carrying what were clearly pre-assembly fighters still in very fresh-looking crates (I can't recall what type, but Spitfires springs to mind).
He later found out they'd been on their way to the docks for loading onto a ship upon which they were taken a few miles out and dumped overboard
.
He later found out they'd been on their way to the docks for loading onto a ship upon which they were taken a few miles out and dumped overboard
.
