Newark Air Museum
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Newark Air Museum
.. popped into Newark Air Museum on Saturday. I worry about an unhealthy attraction towards canopies.
Quick question. What is the handbrake type device next to the rear seat in the Meteor? Is that how ejections were initiated then, or is it a normal seat and is the lever something as simple as a seat adjuster?
Cheers.
Quick question. What is the handbrake type device next to the rear seat in the Meteor? Is that how ejections were initiated then, or is it a normal seat and is the lever something as simple as a seat adjuster?
Cheers.
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Cheers.
I did wonder about the seat - it just seemed far too flimsy to be ejectable. Either way, you wouldn't want to get snagged on that lever, leaving in a hurry would you?
Thanks.
I did wonder about the seat - it just seemed far too flimsy to be ejectable. Either way, you wouldn't want to get snagged on that lever, leaving in a hurry would you?
Thanks.
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I don't think any Meteor two-seaters were fitted with ejection seats.
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In the 1950's several squadrons of Meteors were based at West Malling, none of them with ejection seats. The loss rate at times was quite shocking, on occasions two in one week. The local paper even conjectured whether "sabotage" was behind it. Perhaps the service nickname of meatbox had its origins in the difficulties of getting out when everything went wrong?
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There was a post within the military section, detailing Meteor losses. I may be wrong, but it seems to have been running at at least 4 or 5 a month for one particular year. I wonder if that was because it was difficult to fly or whether the pilots were available by quantity, but perhaps the training wasn't what it should have been?
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Henry,
I've just read that During service, a total of some 890 Meteors crashed, killing nearly 450 aircrew. Nowadays, thats inconceivable.. especially as it was in peace time.
I've just read that During service, a total of some 890 Meteors crashed, killing nearly 450 aircrew. Nowadays, thats inconceivable.. especially as it was in peace time.
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That number doesn't surprise me in the least.
In 1953 there 145, (we are only talking about the major writeoff type accidents), and the majority of those would have involved a fatality.
In that same year the RAF lost a total of 486 aircraft of which 334 were fatal.
They were interesting times to live through.
In 1953 there 145, (we are only talking about the major writeoff type accidents), and the majority of those would have involved a fatality.
In that same year the RAF lost a total of 486 aircraft of which 334 were fatal.
They were interesting times to live through.
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The dreaded Meteor.
Ref the poor accident record of the type.
In October 1953, I commenced a jet conversion at 209 AFS Weston Zoyland. There were seven on the course. The Mk V11 (no ejection seat) was the dual trainer, the single seat pressurised Mk 1V (no seat) for solo flying.
When I graduated six months later ... we had lost four course members with two on one night. (Feb 12th 1954) ... 57%. Flying Officers Tilley & Fry, RIP. That night four aircraft were written off. The first (Flying Officer Austin) landed wheels up, which initiated the problem.
The second two aircraft fatally crashed on the resultant diversion in low cloud to nearby Merryfield. My aircraft ran out of fuel at 20,000 feet while holding to have the runway cleared. (WA 727) I was lucky to make a night forced landing on the airfield. I believe questions were asked in Parliament shortly afterwards.
Sadly one of the pilots who survived that night was lost the next day with his instructor Flight Lieutenant Pinder. I recall spending almost two hours on one engine (best endurance) searching Dartmoor and the Bristol Channel.
It was a time when many wartime senior officers were also on special 'Jet Conversion' courses, so much so that the usual rule to stand when a senior officer entered the mess, was waived in view of the number on the station.
On that same course, Air Commodore Braithwaite, lost an aircraft following a high speed touch down on the 2000 yard runway. I had an Imperial Square Four in those days, and mounted the bike with a colleague Flying Officer Brian Armstrong ... we chased the Meteor as it went through several hedges.
I recall the scream from the small front wheel as it was dropped on the tarmac at the mid point of the runway and well beyond the 90 knot nose wheel touch down limit (to get three wheel braking) but which didn't work for the Air Commodore.
He wasn't hurt because the cockpit area was clad inches thick in lead! But I did read that he later lost his life in a Meteor at Singapore harbour
Hope some of the above seems interesting ... but it curls my toes when I think back to those days.
Take care all out there,
Dennis Kenyon.
In October 1953, I commenced a jet conversion at 209 AFS Weston Zoyland. There were seven on the course. The Mk V11 (no ejection seat) was the dual trainer, the single seat pressurised Mk 1V (no seat) for solo flying.
When I graduated six months later ... we had lost four course members with two on one night. (Feb 12th 1954) ... 57%. Flying Officers Tilley & Fry, RIP. That night four aircraft were written off. The first (Flying Officer Austin) landed wheels up, which initiated the problem.
The second two aircraft fatally crashed on the resultant diversion in low cloud to nearby Merryfield. My aircraft ran out of fuel at 20,000 feet while holding to have the runway cleared. (WA 727) I was lucky to make a night forced landing on the airfield. I believe questions were asked in Parliament shortly afterwards.
Sadly one of the pilots who survived that night was lost the next day with his instructor Flight Lieutenant Pinder. I recall spending almost two hours on one engine (best endurance) searching Dartmoor and the Bristol Channel.
It was a time when many wartime senior officers were also on special 'Jet Conversion' courses, so much so that the usual rule to stand when a senior officer entered the mess, was waived in view of the number on the station.
On that same course, Air Commodore Braithwaite, lost an aircraft following a high speed touch down on the 2000 yard runway. I had an Imperial Square Four in those days, and mounted the bike with a colleague Flying Officer Brian Armstrong ... we chased the Meteor as it went through several hedges.
I recall the scream from the small front wheel as it was dropped on the tarmac at the mid point of the runway and well beyond the 90 knot nose wheel touch down limit (to get three wheel braking) but which didn't work for the Air Commodore.
He wasn't hurt because the cockpit area was clad inches thick in lead! But I did read that he later lost his life in a Meteor at Singapore harbour
Hope some of the above seems interesting ... but it curls my toes when I think back to those days.
Take care all out there,
Dennis Kenyon.
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Hi Dennis,
Those stats are horrific! And this morbidly interests me.
Dennis said:
What happened there? Was he someone who made a forced landing in bad weather and/or died as a result of that or injuries sustained?
My god though.. 57%? You probably had better odds during the war.
Those stats are horrific! And this morbidly interests me.
Dennis said:
Sadly one of the pilots who survived that night was lost the next day with his instructor Flight Lieutenant Pinder. I recall spending almost two hours on one engine (best endurance) searching Dartmoor and the Bristol Channel.
My god though.. 57%? You probably had better odds during the war.
HC, just curious, do you know what the RN flight losses were at the same time?
I heard (read) a scary interview with a guy who trained with the RN and was delayed heading out to the carrier with the rest of his training wing. When he got on station is his first job was pallbearer at the funeral for the last of the survivors of his wing. The fleet was switching to jets.
Really incredible loss rate.
20driver
I heard (read) a scary interview with a guy who trained with the RN and was delayed heading out to the carrier with the rest of his training wing. When he got on station is his first job was pallbearer at the funeral for the last of the survivors of his wing. The fleet was switching to jets.
Really incredible loss rate.
20driver
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Tom Wolfe wrote;
Different times indeed.
.. and in that eleven weeks, twenty two of his fellow trainees had died in accidents, which was an extraordinary rate of 2 per week. In 1952, 62 Air Force trainees died in the course of thirty six weeks of training, an extraordinary rate of 1.7 per week.
In time, the Navy would complie statistics showing that for a career pilot, ie; one who intended to fly for twenty years, there was a 23 percent chance that he would die in an aircraft accident. Furthermore, there was a better than even chance, 56 percent probability in fact, that at some point a career Navy pilot would have to eject from his aircraft.
In time, the Navy would complie statistics showing that for a career pilot, ie; one who intended to fly for twenty years, there was a 23 percent chance that he would die in an aircraft accident. Furthermore, there was a better than even chance, 56 percent probability in fact, that at some point a career Navy pilot would have to eject from his aircraft.