Boeing 757/767 introduction - what did they officially replace ?
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Boeing 757/767 introduction - what did they officially replace ?
I have a recollection that when Boeing introduced the 757 and 767 to the market (both on the same day) some time around 1980, it was stated that the 757 was a replacement for the 737-200 and the 767 was a replacement for the 727-200.
This was obviously a pretty heroic anticiation of growth (which was commented on at the time) and in the event airlines bought just whichever was relevant to their own needs, of course. So over the years the 757 became perceived as a 727 replacement ad the 767 was seen as a long-hauler instead.
Does anyone know of a reference to this original marketing approach of Boeing I can see to confirm the original expectations.
This was obviously a pretty heroic anticiation of growth (which was commented on at the time) and in the event airlines bought just whichever was relevant to their own needs, of course. So over the years the 757 became perceived as a 727 replacement ad the 767 was seen as a long-hauler instead.
Does anyone know of a reference to this original marketing approach of Boeing I can see to confirm the original expectations.
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Nope the 757 was a replacement for the 727-200. Early studies even proposed keeping the T-tail.
The 767 was not so much a replacement as a design leveraged off the same wings and systems with a wider cabin. You might loosely say it was a 707 replacement, but I don't recall it being stated as that.
ETOPS and two pilot crews were all new innovations. In the early years half the world's ETOPS experience on the 767 was amassed between New Zealand and Australia by Qantas and Air New Zealand.
The 757 however was always promoted as the 727 replacement. Not a 737 replacement. The 737-800/900 many years later grew into the 757-200 niche.
The 767 was not so much a replacement as a design leveraged off the same wings and systems with a wider cabin. You might loosely say it was a 707 replacement, but I don't recall it being stated as that.
ETOPS and two pilot crews were all new innovations. In the early years half the world's ETOPS experience on the 767 was amassed between New Zealand and Australia by Qantas and Air New Zealand.
The 757 however was always promoted as the 727 replacement. Not a 737 replacement. The 737-800/900 many years later grew into the 757-200 niche.
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I agree the 757 was a 727 replacement. The fact that initial versions were designated -200s suggests that ther emay have been an initial plan for a smaller aircraft, which was dropped.
The 767 was initially used by UA on transcon routes, mostly replacing DC8s.
Bear in mind that both these aircraft were developed for a market which had just undergone Deregulation (1978) so like-for-like replacement was probably nioot what the designers had in mind - more seats at lower cost was probably the driver.
The 767 was initially used by UA on transcon routes, mostly replacing DC8s.
Bear in mind that both these aircraft were developed for a market which had just undergone Deregulation (1978) so like-for-like replacement was probably nioot what the designers had in mind - more seats at lower cost was probably the driver.
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B767 BEFORE the B757
I wonder if most pilots today mistakenly believe that the B757 was an earlier project?
Boeing's B757 and B767 Program: BOD approved project in '78.
-- First flight of the B767 was 26Sep81 (Tom Edmonds/Lew Wallick/john Britt). [The first four B767's had that F/E's panel for the whole flight test program.]
-- First flight of B757 was third week of Feb82 (John Armstrong and Lew Wallick).
There were two different teams for those two projects (the schedule overlap would not permit a single team).
Guys from the B757 team would sometimes ride along on B767 tests, since the B767 was way ahead of the B757 during flight test.
Boeing's B757 and B767 Program: BOD approved project in '78.
-- First flight of the B767 was 26Sep81 (Tom Edmonds/Lew Wallick/john Britt). [The first four B767's had that F/E's panel for the whole flight test program.]
-- First flight of B757 was third week of Feb82 (John Armstrong and Lew Wallick).
There were two different teams for those two projects (the schedule overlap would not permit a single team).
Guys from the B757 team would sometimes ride along on B767 tests, since the B767 was way ahead of the B757 during flight test.
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The first few 767 were three crew because the ALPA workload and safety issue was hot and heavy. McDouglas called its stretch the DC9-80, as they had promised no new airplane with two crew.
Then new stats came out: the airliner in service with the lowest accident rate was the 2 crew 737-100 and -200, followed by the DC-9 series. Boeing quickly refitted the first 767s for two crew, and McDoug changed the name to MD-80.
Up to that point, UAL and some others had been flying the 737 with three crew. Imagine logging hours in that horrible jumpseat with nothing to do.
GB
Then new stats came out: the airliner in service with the lowest accident rate was the 2 crew 737-100 and -200, followed by the DC-9 series. Boeing quickly refitted the first 767s for two crew, and McDoug changed the name to MD-80.
Up to that point, UAL and some others had been flying the 737 with three crew. Imagine logging hours in that horrible jumpseat with nothing to do.
GB
