Bomber Command Memorial (Merged)
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I may have said this before. Locating a Bomber Command Memorial at Bicester is akin to a Coastal Command Memorial in Birmingham. There's only one logical county for a Bomber Command Memorial and it's ........ think ..................... right first time.
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forget:
As a native of the White Rose county I agree that a BC memorial would be best sited in Yorkshire
.
Joking aside, it is important that there is a BC memorial to the fallen. If Bicester is chosen I, for one, do not see a problem. At least Bicester had a connection to Bomber Command.
If Al's proposal for a grander scheme bear fruit, all well and good. If the "only" thing that we end up with is a BC memorial that is also well and good.
The real point is that time is running out. WWII ended 63 years ago. The boys who flew in BC at that time are all in their very late seventies or eighties. How much longer do we have to wait to honour them?
If we leave it to long there will be none of them left and any memorial will be an empty gesture. Something has to happen soon.
As a native of the White Rose county I agree that a BC memorial would be best sited in Yorkshire
.Joking aside, it is important that there is a BC memorial to the fallen. If Bicester is chosen I, for one, do not see a problem. At least Bicester had a connection to Bomber Command.
If Al's proposal for a grander scheme bear fruit, all well and good. If the "only" thing that we end up with is a BC memorial that is also well and good.
The real point is that time is running out. WWII ended 63 years ago. The boys who flew in BC at that time are all in their very late seventies or eighties. How much longer do we have to wait to honour them?
If we leave it to long there will be none of them left and any memorial will be an empty gesture. Something has to happen soon.
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Being a Co-Founder of Bomber Command Heritage, therefore the following may seem like ignorance to some.
Lincolnshire or Yorkshire for obvious reasons are on the main hitlist in regards for doing anything in relation to RAF Bomber Command of the WWII period.
However, a suitable place should not be tainted by facts like geographical location, special ops, largest amount of ordinance dropped by Sqdns, biggest aircraft, or biggest runways. It is about future generations remembering those of the Command in the best possible environment, when we ourselves are no longer on this Earth.
How many of you Guys have been to Runnymeade? How does it feel?, more importantly what do you feel? The atmosphere and surrounds are real important, not so much whether a Lanc or Blenheim operated close by....
Do not misunderstand my mumblings. Nothing wrong with a Memorial in Lincs, IF the right location was found, FANTASTIC!!!!! But where? I do think there is a case of fixating on that blue sky, without checking ones focus on the horizon, every now and then.
Bomber Command personnel not only operated in Lancs from Lincs!
Before I get slammed, my Great Uncle (Lanc Skipper, trained under the Arnold Scheme in the U.S) and crew last had their feet on the ground 8 March 1945 at RAF Skellingthorpe, Lincolnshire. They took off at 1743 hours. Approximately five hours later they were dead, bar the rear gunner. The crew had been together for six months, flying together from Sept 1944. They had come to the end of their first Tour as a "TEAM", but never came back. The oldest of the crew was thirty five...I myself am thirty-seven, non-military...and my golly, did I have a lump in my throat when I laid wreaths to these Men, and for other relatives that had contacted us from RAF 61 Squadron. I have utter respect and grattitude for all those Men, and this of course extends to those that are thankfully still with us today. Like most relatives with an interest, I am of course drawn to that place.
A National Memorial is A MUST, and those here have the enthusiasm to make it REALITY, so what are you waiting for?
Lincolnshire or Yorkshire for obvious reasons are on the main hitlist in regards for doing anything in relation to RAF Bomber Command of the WWII period.
However, a suitable place should not be tainted by facts like geographical location, special ops, largest amount of ordinance dropped by Sqdns, biggest aircraft, or biggest runways. It is about future generations remembering those of the Command in the best possible environment, when we ourselves are no longer on this Earth.
How many of you Guys have been to Runnymeade? How does it feel?, more importantly what do you feel? The atmosphere and surrounds are real important, not so much whether a Lanc or Blenheim operated close by....
Do not misunderstand my mumblings. Nothing wrong with a Memorial in Lincs, IF the right location was found, FANTASTIC!!!!! But where? I do think there is a case of fixating on that blue sky, without checking ones focus on the horizon, every now and then.
Bomber Command personnel not only operated in Lancs from Lincs!
Before I get slammed, my Great Uncle (Lanc Skipper, trained under the Arnold Scheme in the U.S) and crew last had their feet on the ground 8 March 1945 at RAF Skellingthorpe, Lincolnshire. They took off at 1743 hours. Approximately five hours later they were dead, bar the rear gunner. The crew had been together for six months, flying together from Sept 1944. They had come to the end of their first Tour as a "TEAM", but never came back. The oldest of the crew was thirty five...I myself am thirty-seven, non-military...and my golly, did I have a lump in my throat when I laid wreaths to these Men, and for other relatives that had contacted us from RAF 61 Squadron. I have utter respect and grattitude for all those Men, and this of course extends to those that are thankfully still with us today. Like most relatives with an interest, I am of course drawn to that place.
A National Memorial is A MUST, and those here have the enthusiasm to make it REALITY, so what are you waiting for?
BCH, I absolutely concur with your sentiments. Indeed Al's inspired vision has surely moved things to a higher plane, for if as he proposes Bicester is the focus of Remembrance to the entire Bombing Offensive effort, where could you possibly better place such a memorial geographically? Liverpool for the Convoys, Crewe for the Railway Workers, Scores of Aircraft Factories, Scores of Munitions Factories, Empire Flying Training Schools for Pilots, Others for Navs, Engs, Gunners etc, the OTUs, the HCUs, the Operational Stations, Group and Command HQs, MCUs for AirSea Rescue...the list is indeed endless. It seems to me that a well preserved OTU station is as good a location as any, and one so centrally placed as Bicester in that web described above particularly so. The BC Memorial placed there, dedicated to the Aircrews, would emphasise the point that the crews were the Spearhead of this attack, but the Shaft of the Spear were those "Millions like Us" without whom there would have been no Bomber Command and no Bomber Offensive. It was a point recognised by the crews at the time, some of whom would visit the Factories etc to encourage maximum effort. This was a "Peoples War" and no other effort illustrated that so well as this one. Al's vision captures that basic truth and encourages us to broaden our horizons to see woods instead of trees. I "commend it to the house"!
Last edited by Chugalug2; 1st May 2008 at 11:36.
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Hi Chuggers! Yes, I beleive Bicester would be of course be the best place, indeed for those reasons that have been highlighted by yourself and Al! I start "going off on one" I will no doubt upset many people, and that would not be right for me to do.
Being involved of course with the "Bicester Vision", I don't want to offend those like Hugh, Foldie, etc who agree to disagree. I just want people to go to these places they are suggesting, and do the groundwork, then they, I am sure, will understand.
Bicester, arguably of course, would be the perfect place. This "Heritage Centre" is not some whimisical idea, - we've been working flaming hard, and continue to do so! BOTH ARE DO-ABLE, and Bicester really is the place to make it all happen!
If we (BCH) can do a bit of a "Show & Tell" this Summer to the likes of those "not so keen", the place may open the eyes to that vision of Al's, that we (BCH) share 110%. I don't want to harp on about the "Bisto Project" here, as there is a thread elsewhere, but the possibilities are quite fantastic.
Being politally incorrect, DO NOT shove the Memorial in the middle of what was agricultural land, that is being returned to agricultural land, or with industrial units changing the vistas that are currently on such aerodromes.
Somewhere all year with easy access is a must, unless you have a use of a 'copter, wet weather gear and a portable loo!
Who wants a National Memorial in a Farmer's Field or Industrial Estate? Well, I don't and nor do others.
Being involved of course with the "Bicester Vision", I don't want to offend those like Hugh, Foldie, etc who agree to disagree. I just want people to go to these places they are suggesting, and do the groundwork, then they, I am sure, will understand.
Bicester, arguably of course, would be the perfect place. This "Heritage Centre" is not some whimisical idea, - we've been working flaming hard, and continue to do so! BOTH ARE DO-ABLE, and Bicester really is the place to make it all happen!
If we (BCH) can do a bit of a "Show & Tell" this Summer to the likes of those "not so keen", the place may open the eyes to that vision of Al's, that we (BCH) share 110%. I don't want to harp on about the "Bisto Project" here, as there is a thread elsewhere, but the possibilities are quite fantastic.
Being politally incorrect, DO NOT shove the Memorial in the middle of what was agricultural land, that is being returned to agricultural land, or with industrial units changing the vistas that are currently on such aerodromes.
Somewhere all year with easy access is a must, unless you have a use of a 'copter, wet weather gear and a portable loo!
Who wants a National Memorial in a Farmer's Field or Industrial Estate? Well, I don't and nor do others.
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A slight change of topic but the Australian War Memorial has a Bomber Command Memorial on the grounds near the Lone Pine memorial. its a symbol of a searchlight with outlines of air and ground crew.
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Simple and effective. A great shame that the Australian government has more b*$$s than any of our governments in the last sixty odd years. We really are behind in this.
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Thanks for that Forget and PermFO. Nice bit of artwork Forget, wherever it goes in my book! 
The fact is it needs to be done, and you chaps really have the enthusiasm to get things going.
Chaps, Here is what the Nanton Lancaster Museum has done for the Canadians of Bomber Command, absolutely FANTASTIC..also note ten thousand names on that Memorial.
See below text on the page in regards to the Memorial:-
"To be listed on the Memorial the individual must have been killed while serving with a Bomber Command Squadron or while training with a Bomber Command Operational Training Unit or a Bomber Command Heavy Conversion Unit. Individuals are not included if they died in off-duty accidents or due to illness. Individuals included on the Memorial must have been Canadian citizens serving with Bomber Command in any air force or non-Canadians serving with Bomber Command while wearing the uniform of the Royal Canadian Air Force." - Extract from Nanton Lancaster Society website.
http://www.lancastermuseum.ca/memorialgranite.html
And this is what GREAT BRITAIN has done for the 55,xxx of the Commonwealth...not a very good show..."bloody poor show" if I may be granted to use such a profanity on an open forum!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/5291094.stm
Sorry, have to pop this in there too...
http://www.content-delivery.co.uk/av.../Bicester.html
Before anyone says "AARGH! No concrete, no good!", the 617 Sqdn Boys never needed the hard stuff at Scampton to go get those dams...
So, from that, this Country is missing a couple of very required Memorials, 1) London Memorial 2) Country Memorial.
The fact is it needs to be done, and you chaps really have the enthusiasm to get things going.Chaps, Here is what the Nanton Lancaster Museum has done for the Canadians of Bomber Command, absolutely FANTASTIC..also note ten thousand names on that Memorial.
See below text on the page in regards to the Memorial:-
"To be listed on the Memorial the individual must have been killed while serving with a Bomber Command Squadron or while training with a Bomber Command Operational Training Unit or a Bomber Command Heavy Conversion Unit. Individuals are not included if they died in off-duty accidents or due to illness. Individuals included on the Memorial must have been Canadian citizens serving with Bomber Command in any air force or non-Canadians serving with Bomber Command while wearing the uniform of the Royal Canadian Air Force." - Extract from Nanton Lancaster Society website.
http://www.lancastermuseum.ca/memorialgranite.html
And this is what GREAT BRITAIN has done for the 55,xxx of the Commonwealth...not a very good show..."bloody poor show" if I may be granted to use such a profanity on an open forum!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/5291094.stm
Sorry, have to pop this in there too...
http://www.content-delivery.co.uk/av.../Bicester.html
Before anyone says "AARGH! No concrete, no good!", the 617 Sqdn Boys never needed the hard stuff at Scampton to go get those dams...
So, from that, this Country is missing a couple of very required Memorials, 1) London Memorial 2) Country Memorial.
Last edited by bc_heritage; 3rd May 2008 at 18:49.
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Robin Gibb talking about the campaign.. clicky clicky .
I understand he might be campaigning on the BBC sometime this week. Can anyone confirm, and if so, offer any details?
Yet more clicky clicky and even MORE clicky clicky from John Nichol and Sqn Ldr Tony Iveson DFC.
I understand he might be campaigning on the BBC sometime this week. Can anyone confirm, and if so, offer any details?
Yet more clicky clicky and even MORE clicky clicky from John Nichol and Sqn Ldr Tony Iveson DFC.
Hi Forget, good to have your input as ever. Of the two pics posted by you I much prefer the traditional wall bearing names, insignia, etc and attendant bronze figures to the "modern art" approach of metallic searchlight cones or whatever. The latter would soon look dated after some 10-20 years I fear, whereas a "traditional memorial" will still look the part in 100-200 years. The importance of this campaign to our freedoms will be better appreciated then I suspect than it is now. Now if we could just agree on its siting....
BCH, its good to learn that things are moving apace at Bicester. Whatever the outcome to the subject of this thread, I am sure all wish you well in your efforts to retain that unique and historic RAF station as a place of Remembrance and retention of the Heritage of the Bomber Campaign.
Al, a timely reminder in the videos released at the launch of the Bomber Command Memorial campaign some weeks ago by Robin Gibb, the Heritage Foundation and the Bomber Command Association. If he is indeed renewing that campaign this week then hopefully it is to mark the end of the preparatory phase and to launch the Campaign proper for a London memorial. If that is so then all the support it gathers will eventually assist the provision of a "country" memorial, the subject of this thread. That now seems to be morphing into something larger, a recognition of the gigantic national effort and sacrifice made in those dark years to secure freedom and victory, in which a Bomber Command Memorial to its fallen aircrew would take centre place. If that be so then I for one think that the wait would have been worthwhile, to get this right. What this nation did for the world more than 60 years ago was surely our Finest Hour?
BCH, its good to learn that things are moving apace at Bicester. Whatever the outcome to the subject of this thread, I am sure all wish you well in your efforts to retain that unique and historic RAF station as a place of Remembrance and retention of the Heritage of the Bomber Campaign.
Al, a timely reminder in the videos released at the launch of the Bomber Command Memorial campaign some weeks ago by Robin Gibb, the Heritage Foundation and the Bomber Command Association. If he is indeed renewing that campaign this week then hopefully it is to mark the end of the preparatory phase and to launch the Campaign proper for a London memorial. If that is so then all the support it gathers will eventually assist the provision of a "country" memorial, the subject of this thread. That now seems to be morphing into something larger, a recognition of the gigantic national effort and sacrifice made in those dark years to secure freedom and victory, in which a Bomber Command Memorial to its fallen aircrew would take centre place. If that be so then I for one think that the wait would have been worthwhile, to get this right. What this nation did for the world more than 60 years ago was surely our Finest Hour?
Thanks for the Heads Up, BCH. Was this the piece that you saw?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7388306.stm
The campaign (for the London Memorial) is fortunate indeed to have someone so committed and influential as Robin Gibb. Let us hope that he succeeds, and moves on to secure a Memorial outside London when that one is built.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7388306.stm
The campaign (for the London Memorial) is fortunate indeed to have someone so committed and influential as Robin Gibb. Let us hope that he succeeds, and moves on to secure a Memorial outside London when that one is built.
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Saw the video this morning while checking the news. A well balanced piece, I thought.
It was good to see that they also showed someone who was a "recipient" of the bombs and what they thought about the bombing campaign.
One thought that did cross my mind is that it looks as though this smallish town in Holland has a memorial to, at least some of, the Bomber Crews.
Is the UK the only country not to have one? Our lack of caring really does show us up as a nation.
It was good to see that they also showed someone who was a "recipient" of the bombs and what they thought about the bombing campaign.
One thought that did cross my mind is that it looks as though this smallish town in Holland has a memorial to, at least some of, the Bomber Crews.
Is the UK the only country not to have one? Our lack of caring really does show us up as a nation.
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Is the UK the only country not to have one? Our lack of caring really does show us up as a nation.
(Ex) Rhodesia.
http://www.rhodesiana.com/archives/d...w_Memorial.pdf
PS I've got this completely wrong! The Memorial is in France! I'll leave it here as a reminder to be more careful in future.
Last edited by forget; 8th May 2008 at 10:45.
I saw Robin Gibb speaking on the news regarding the memorial and I still think that the most appropriate location remains London.
There will always be arguments about Lincs or Yorks (or Cambs or Beds). If it is a national memorial then it should be located somewhere that the largest number of people can see it and visit it and I am sorry but that is London. After all the Vietnam Memorial is in DC, not stuck on some now closed airbase or army post in the middle of nowhere.
Still think that proposed design is spot on though.
There will always be arguments about Lincs or Yorks (or Cambs or Beds). If it is a national memorial then it should be located somewhere that the largest number of people can see it and visit it and I am sorry but that is London. After all the Vietnam Memorial is in DC, not stuck on some now closed airbase or army post in the middle of nowhere.
Still think that proposed design is spot on though.
After all the Vietnam Memorial is in DC, not stuck on some now closed airbase or army post in the middle of nowhere.
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Was just over in the Military Forum and saw that another member of Bomber Command has passed away.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=326140
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=326140
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Bomber Command Memorial
I was very pleased when I received my BCA Newsletter today that matters are taking great strides to get this campaign going. I was disappointed last year when my personal approach to the BCA for its support for a memorial was treated to a lukewarm response but let's put that behind us and pursue our objective in the coming months. We're up and running and nothing should stop us.