RAF Argosy crewing query

[Krystal n chips]

To settle a discussion I had last night please, I have a query about the crew compliment of the RAF Argosy....I say the usual crew would have been a Capt. / Co . Nav, Air Eng and an ALM. My mate says no Air Eng as he was certain there was no dedicated panel for him......we could both be wrong of course.

I only had one air ex. trip as an app. in a Screaming T£T from Benson to Benson in (solid cloud ) and my only memory is of a side ladder on the right hand side to access the flight deck...so not a lot to go on, just my assumption the RAF would have had a 5 man crew as standard.

All relevant info appreciated please. There is a side bet to the correct answer btw.

[Speedbird48]

The screeming Tit.

The Argosy, Bensons finest, most definatly did have a Flight Engineer in RAF service. And, all the rest of the congregation that you mention., plus I believe an R/O.

As for the dedicated panel ,the Beverly didn't have one either, but it did have a Flight Engineer.

That machine, Argosy, was the best crew transport that Her Majesty ever provided. Couldn't carry any form of useful payload, but was great to bring the shopping home.

Speedbird 48.

[chevvron]

My first ever flight 2 hours of circuits at Benson in an Argosy; I filled two puke bags and then they chucked me off and carried on!!

[om15]

Krystal,
Like you, my first ever flight was as an app in a whistling tit from Benson to Benson, later on proper flights here and there,
As mentioned above the RAF aircraft had Eng, and the ex RAF aircraft that were sold on to Zaire carried a Flight Engineer, however I am pretty sure that the civilian variant operated by Air Bridge Carriers did not, whether the RAF aircraft had a different layout to the civilian types, or different Operating Procedures I am not sure.
Dimly remember modifying a 70 Sqn aircraft at Akrotiri, I think we fitted a fridge on board, held in place with 9G self tappers.
Best regards,
om15

[Krystal n chips]

Thanks to all so far for the info.....the inclusion of a R/O is likely to deprive me of my winnings in terms of alcohol however.....can this be confirmed at all please ?

OM15, this was actually our second air ex. flight c/o the Halton Hilton....the first was in a Vickers Funbus and the highlight, coughs, was that on or about the 6th touch and go at Brize, the baby Loadmistress who had so kindly briefed us all as to the use of the sick bag......duly recycled her lunch

Sympathy did, of course, emanate forth from the assembled apprenti at this point.

[Krystal n chips]

Bral......well you were always good at ferreting around in the dark ....Pip probably has then stowed next to his, er, "finery" collection

Am pretty certain the ladder was on the right...there again...I have been known to be wrong. You could always ask the Scotland's most modest pilot on your next sim ride of course......I understand he had a flirtation with the beast at some point.

[stevef]

The ladder was on the left side, directly opposite the entrance door. Air Bridge Carriers operated as two-crew although a flying spanner often occupied the middle seat if the aircraft was working away from base. I worked on them for a short while: Air Bridge's and the low-houred Rolls Royce Argosy (G-APRM or RN?), which was scrapped at Exeter in the mid-eighties.
Sorry if you've got to buy the beers, Krystal!

[Robert Cooper]

ladder was definately on the left. At Benson IIRC it was a crew of 4 and no Signaller.

Bob C

[Krystal n chips]

Thanks again for all the replies.....the beer issue rests on the crew of 4 or 5....if it was 4, would that be minus a Nav then ?.

Can't think why an Air Sig would have been carried either....others may know of course ?

[mhod]

mhod

I flew the RAF Argosy for some 8 years based at Benson, Bahrain and Aden. Splendid and comfy crew transport but underpowered and with a much too heavy floor to save using load-spreaders for an armoured car that was modified so it would not fit in the freight bay. Standard crew was 5: Pilot, co-pilot, Nav, Eng and Air Quartermaster (subsequently changed to Air Loadmaster). Sometimes we carried more than one ALM for para dropping or or a MAMs team when no movers were at a destination such as Buraimi Oasis (exciting when carrying 45 gallon drums of Avpin!).
Hope this helps.

[Krystal n chips]

mhod,

My blood / alcohol level is indebted to you ! Many thanks

As for carting Avpin around.......must have been "good fun"

[POHL]

I flew both RAF and civilian Argosy types. RAF crew was as previously discribed 2Pilots Nav and Flt Eng with/without Aqm.
The BEA Argosy were of two types 102's and 222's both flown with a two
Pilot crew with all controls/functions operable from the front seats.
The most important thing to remember about climbing the Argosy was not
to loose any height!

[merryterry]

Argosy over Ewelme

I am not a pilot so I am just making an observation on the subject of Argosy's at Benson. I lived at Ewelme near Benson some years ago when the Argosy's were based there. One evening we were on the cricket pitch at Ewelme and the Argosy's were doing circuits and bumps. One Argosy banked steeply behind the village and the wing tip sliced through a clump of trees at the back of our house and brought a load of branches down. I cannot think for the life of me why they were in that position as it is at 90 degrees to the runway and about 1 nm away.

[Synthetic]

I started my career on the Argosy sim at Benson (RAF joke - you're posted onto Tornado, but it's not ready yet, so we'll put you somewhere appropriate). By this time, the Argosy was no longer in regular service, but the sim was kept on as a generic air eng trainer. The engineers station was in desk format on the starboard side of the flight deck. It had a set of engine instruments, the l.e. de-iceing control unit, water/methanol controls, and all the systems instrumentation.

[JW411]

I flew the Argosy in the RAF for ten years. The ladder was most definitely on the port side. The F/E's empire was on the starboard side of the cockpit bubble facing sideways. The navigator sat behind him facing backwards. The AQM/ALM usually had a desk downstairs up forward on the starboard side facing backwards.

The Argosy was the first Transport Command aircraft NOT to carry a signaller (R/O). Since the aircraft was fitted with single sideband HF sets there was no longer a need for a morse key.

We did have a couple of AEOs or Siggies on the HQ staff to give us advice. I well remember Frankie Burke. He was the only chap to get injured when Hastings WD492 hit the Greenland ice cap whilst supply-dropping on 16/9/1952.

[JW411]

mhod:

Funny that; all of my club gliders had A12A regulators (except the Ka-4) and I know that I still have a couple in the attic!

bral:

What on earth were you doing with 45 gals of AVPIN at Daudi?

[old,not bold]

For those of us who only used Argosy's for jumping out of (after enjoying the downwards hatch in the floor of the Beverley's boom) the problem was the curve of the door, if you were No 1; you had to lean forwards to get a hand outside each side in the approved fashion, and would nearly overbalance while waiting for the green.

What I'm waiting for on this thread is the admission/confession/abject apology from the navigationally-challenged Argosy crew who offloaded quite a few of us into a muddy estuary one night instead of the DZ........ I bet they're still laughing.

[Fareastdriver]

I joined the RAF in 1960 in the then Rhodesia. One of the rules were that if you didn't get married or anything stupid like that you could give up your annual leave and take two months Dom Col leave in you country of attestation. I did and I was transported out to Rhodesia in early '65 whilst they were scrapping my Valiants. Come the return I was fixed up with an Argosy flight to Khormakser and then a trooping flight to the UK.
I got on the Alsoggy at Salisbury (Harawe) and found that the aircraft was being flown by a NEAF VVIP, possibly an ex-spitfire pilot. Apart from the odd taxiway light between the mainwheels and fuselage the flight to Nairobi went as planned. At Nairobi I was told to get my bag off and go to Eastliegh, now a KAF training school and await further transport to the UK. I spent three days there because I was bumped to make way for a load of topsoil for somebody's garden.

[forget]

I spent three days there because I was bumped to make way for a load of topsoil for somebody's garden.

That would be Johnny Johnson's famed Middle East garden then.

[JW411]

Fareastdriver:

I think I am right in saying (as an ex-105 Squadron captain) that JEJ's compost was put on a Beverley.

bral:

WOG; certainly - I was the CFI.