Twin Pioneer
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Near a very good pub in rural Oxfordshire :-)
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"I might be able to help. My brother-in-law was on that flight!"
I reckon there were only 2 of us on that flight on Monday... and the lady instructress in the right hand seat is no-one's brother-in-law!
I reckon there were only 2 of us on that flight on Monday... and the lady instructress in the right hand seat is no-one's brother-in-law!
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Many, many years ago, (oh alright 1967) I recall taking a Wessex of the conversion unit for a little low flying around the Odiham area. It was decided to make a "tactical" approach to a particular small field. Racking around the trees onto final we were presented with the field, already occupied by a Twin-pin, which didn't seem to have any difficulty either arriving or departing. Quite an aeroplane. By the way, rumour had it that the manufacturer's plate in the aircraft said "made and designed by Scottish Aviation" in that order. Any truth in this?
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 80
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made and designed by Scottish Aviation
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Devon
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Seem to recall a commercial operation from Portsmouth to the Channel Islands a while ago.
JFA - I think was the operator with a rather bright colour scheme - Im guessing around the mid 70s
JFA - I think was the operator with a rather bright colour scheme - Im guessing around the mid 70s
Bigt you are right
I found two TP's that spent time with JFA. Serial no: 507 was intended for Borneo Airways as VR-OAE. ff Jul 10 1957 as G-APHX. Operated by Kuwait Airways from Oct 1957 becoming 9K-ACB. Returned to G-APHX May 1969, JF Airlines May 1971, Flight One Mar 1973. Scrapped Aug 1978.
Serial no: 508, G-APHY, same history except it went on to Terr-Air Canada in May 1973 after Flight One. It eventually crashed in the Yukon.
I found two TP's that spent time with JFA. Serial no: 507 was intended for Borneo Airways as VR-OAE. ff Jul 10 1957 as G-APHX. Operated by Kuwait Airways from Oct 1957 becoming 9K-ACB. Returned to G-APHX May 1969, JF Airlines May 1971, Flight One Mar 1973. Scrapped Aug 1978.
Serial no: 508, G-APHY, same history except it went on to Terr-Air Canada in May 1973 after Flight One. It eventually crashed in the Yukon.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Blenheim, New Zealand
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I'm delighted to see so much interest in the Twin Pin. If you wish to read further stories about the aeroplane go to the Royal Malaysian Air force Museum website at http://www.malaysian-museums.org/rmaf/ and click on the green 'What's New' button at the bottom of the page, scroll down to Twin Pioneer Newsletters then click on 'Twin Pioneer stories'. You'll find many stories about the aeroplane, its designers, makers, operators and repairers.
The sign in the cockpit did say 'Manufactured and designed by Scottish Aviation Ltd'. This was pointed out to me by the irate Chief Engineer of de Kroonduif when something was not to his liking!
The sign in the cockpit did say 'Manufactured and designed by Scottish Aviation Ltd'. This was pointed out to me by the irate Chief Engineer of de Kroonduif when something was not to his liking!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Age: 74
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Fascinating story about the missile-equipped Twin Pin? Does anyone have a photo showing it fitted with this, or even know the serial number of the aircraft used?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Blenheim, New Zealand
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Twin Pioneer with Nord SS11 missile
I have two references to TEPs and the Nord.
The stories emanate from ex 78 Squadron members.
Mike says he was with the squadron in 1963/64 as a SAC instrument mechanic based at Khormaksar.
An extract from his story in Twin Pioneer Newsletter Number 10 (see RMAF web site) -
Around this time we were given the task of taking out a rebel position. Some Army guys walked into an ambush down in a wadi. The rebels were high up the mountains in a couple of caves. The Hunter Squadrons had already had a couple of rocket runs against them but were too fast and couldn't get low enough into the twisting wadi. We loaded up one of the Twin Pioneers with 4 x Nord SS11 wire guided missiles; something we had practiced but never used in anger. The aircraft took off and ‘staggered’ down the valley at its usual ‘walking pace’ and put one missile right into each cave entrance totally destroying the targets. It arrived back at Khormaksar just before dusk with two ‘live’ missiles still on board. This threw the Armoury into a right panic. No one had ever unloaded live missiles off a Twin Pin before! So we parked it on a safe heading at the other side of the airfield until daylight broke the following morning.
Peter, a navigator, has a different slant on the experience -
Squadron legend, probably a long way from fact, said that they were a
disaster. The were controlled by two thin wires, one for elevation, the other for
azimuth, which unreeled as the missile launched. If the wires broke, which
apparently they did quite often, the story was that the missile became heat
seeking and the breakages often occurred shortly after launch. And what was the
hottest thing around shortly after launch? But I do stress that's squadron
legend. You may come across someone who had actual experience. 8 squadron,
(Hunters) were also launching rockets, but the arabs soon caught onto the fact
that these were unguided. They simply watched the aircraft until the launch and
then toddled off at right angles to the path of the rockets, which dug
expensive holes in the sand.
I imagine photographs would be difficult to come by but one never knows!
The stories emanate from ex 78 Squadron members.
Mike says he was with the squadron in 1963/64 as a SAC instrument mechanic based at Khormaksar.
An extract from his story in Twin Pioneer Newsletter Number 10 (see RMAF web site) -
Hunter’s fail – call in the TEPs
Peter, a navigator, has a different slant on the experience -
Squadron legend, probably a long way from fact, said that they were a
disaster. The were controlled by two thin wires, one for elevation, the other for
azimuth, which unreeled as the missile launched. If the wires broke, which
apparently they did quite often, the story was that the missile became heat
seeking and the breakages often occurred shortly after launch. And what was the
hottest thing around shortly after launch? But I do stress that's squadron
legend. You may come across someone who had actual experience. 8 squadron,
(Hunters) were also launching rockets, but the arabs soon caught onto the fact
that these were unguided. They simply watched the aircraft until the launch and
then toddled off at right angles to the path of the rockets, which dug
expensive holes in the sand.
I imagine photographs would be difficult to come by but one never knows!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Age: 74
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Fascinating stuff, but surely you cannot just fit rockets to any military aircraft at whim? Such things would have to be tested and approved by A&AEE at Boscombe Down? I guess there must have been some official photos taken to get approval and they were probably classified at the time?
I remember vaguely they also fitted machine guns under the transoms to put down an impending local uprising in Crater. I joined 78 in August 1959, converted on to the TP, but with a glut of pilots on the squadron moved to 152 in Bahrain. It was around that time.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Blenheim, New Zealand
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Nord SS-11 and Guns
I'm sure you are correct - the Nord SS-11 would have been an official mod. I don't see an Engineering Officer carrying out a minor mod in the field. The A&AEE will have records and photographs I imagine. I don't recall seeing the installation in SAL's brochure 'The Twin Pioneer Takes Arms' or at the 1961 SBAC Show when a TEP appeared in the static display with its stores.
I have a picture of a gun on a 209 Squadron aeroplane - I'll have to learn how to post photographs.
I have a picture of a gun on a 209 Squadron aeroplane - I'll have to learn how to post photographs.
Twin Pins based at Sharjah, in the mid-60's, servicing the Trucial Oman Scouts desert camps mainly, were replaced by the Andover in around '66/'67.
And with the Andovers came bureaucracy, paperwork, report 60 mins before take-off, and, unbelievably, "you can't carry your weapons on board"! End of friendly, efficient informality, fling it in and go, and "there's no such thing as a problem".
But the payloads were no better than the Twin Pin's, although the strips had to be smartened up a lot and lengthened.
The great M/Sgt Bimbo W**d once got me to fly on route back to base across the sands, while he had a zizz in the back. He knew I had a PPL, and a Prentice. We were alone in the aircraft. For 15 minutes I chased the elevator trim; just couldn't get it right. I gave in and looked round to ask Bim what I was doing wrong. He was leaning against a bit of freight, panting heavily, covered in sweat.
"For **** sake" he gasped, "I thought you'd never catch on".
He'd been running up and down the cabin, for a laugh.
And with the Andovers came bureaucracy, paperwork, report 60 mins before take-off, and, unbelievably, "you can't carry your weapons on board"! End of friendly, efficient informality, fling it in and go, and "there's no such thing as a problem".
But the payloads were no better than the Twin Pin's, although the strips had to be smartened up a lot and lengthened.
The great M/Sgt Bimbo W**d once got me to fly on route back to base across the sands, while he had a zizz in the back. He knew I had a PPL, and a Prentice. We were alone in the aircraft. For 15 minutes I chased the elevator trim; just couldn't get it right. I gave in and looked round to ask Bim what I was doing wrong. He was leaning against a bit of freight, panting heavily, covered in sweat.
"For **** sake" he gasped, "I thought you'd never catch on".
He'd been running up and down the cabin, for a laugh.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Halifax, West Yorks
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I had a ride as pax in single Pin once, on a 10 minute air test.
It was just long enough to get from one side of St Athan to the other.
It was just long enough to get from one side of St Athan to the other.
Old, not bold
'Bim' as a M/Sgt??? - our cousins might well have welcomed him but M/PLT he was!!! and, like the majority of his ilk, a bit good with the 'stick and rudder' inputs. Aaaaaaah, the nostalgia.
'Bim' as a M/Sgt??? - our cousins might well have welcomed him but M/PLT he was!!! and, like the majority of his ilk, a bit good with the 'stick and rudder' inputs. Aaaaaaah, the nostalgia.
I'm on my knees apologising to Master Pilots....
As the ragheads involved, we were never very good with the titles.
Yes he was good with the stick 'n rudder, and showed me a thing or two about a Prentice, when I eventually got it to Sharjah.
As the ragheads involved, we were never very good with the titles.
Yes he was good with the stick 'n rudder, and showed me a thing or two about a Prentice, when I eventually got it to Sharjah.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Went for a flight in this brightly coloured one a few years back. I wonder if its still around? It was always at the air shows in Queensland giving joy flights for $50 a pop.
Can't say I've seen it since that day.
Can't say I've seen it since that day.
Gentleman Aviator
Certainly the way I recall the SS11 story from the F540 was that it was an official trial, as there were (French) civilians from Sud Aviation involved.....