Southport beach - Merseyside
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To a fellow old b**d pilot
Hello Old Bald Pilot,
Nice to hear about Norman Giroux straight from the horses mouth.
….Is it true that at the start of WWII Norman dismantled his aircraft for the duration so that the military could not commandeer them?
He also told a tale of earlier pleasure flying of DH10’s. I recall he paid £5 for the aircraft, and spare engines were £10 each!
….It would seem that you and I both went along the same path at different airfields at different times (A time before professionals!). I (officially) started loading pleasure flying aircraft in 1961(16). We had 89a Rapides G-AJKW and G-AKRS plus our Austers, and the opposition had a MkII DH84 Dragon G-ADDI. One year both firms worked together, and one day in August I loaded 40 tower flight aircraft!
….We started at 10.15 (After first fuelling, cleaning windows, changing wheels or seats) and cease fly at 19.30. We had several pilots, they got 2/6d per landing, and each pilot wanted the aircraft loading differently, some nose heavy others tail heavy, or two heavies at the door or in the second row, I carried all these load factors in my head, plus mentally working out the fuel burn to the next pilot change/refuel. The 89a’s carried 37 galls a side in order to lift 10 passengers, The Dragon also carried 10 as the starters and generators had been removed along with a heavy battery. Blackpool did not go “Radio Mandatory” till late 60’s.
….The pleasure flying Austers were always in need of looking after, I learned to change the undercarriage bungies quickly, usually on a Sunday, to keep the aircraft airborne. If a Gasket blew on the Gypsy Major in the morning, we had the head off double quick, if a copper gasket was not available I would have to use the covers off Woman's Own magazines and carefully cut out 4 round gaskets from these. Normally 4 of these on together would get you through the afternoon’s pleasure flying.
….The Auster wheels were also a big problem, as they never got maintained till a major check occurred. New pilots always popped an inner tube or two before they got the nack of taxiing fast without brakes. Then wheel bearings would collapse, you asked your passengers to hold up the Auster wing so the wheel was clear of the ground, then beat shyte out of the offending wheel to get it off. Replace it with a spare, screw up the big nut, check for end play, then pop a 4BA bolt through the axel to lock the big nut, load the passengers having thanked them, swing the prop and we were off again.
The staff called this company FREDAIR. Fredcarnoes Circus! During all this melee, I was getting my own tower flights. I also joined the ATC 177 sqdn to get AEF Air Experience Flights in Chipmunks from Woodvale.
….Sometimes we would go an away day pleasure flying, put a trestle table in one of the Dragons, G-ACIT a MkI was on line then, some chairs, money box with tickets, then off to RAF whatever. After the air show, the RAF would give us a case of beer before we departed, which we all drank on the flight home.
….As we approached the 1970’s pleasure flying was losing it’s magic and popularity, we ended up over the years using only Austers, PA22 Tri Pacers, PA28’s, a Cherokee 6 G-AWCY if we were busy, got 13(Mum/children combination) + Pilot on the 6 one day.
I then did a bit of loading on Southport beach, in the “Fox” OJH the DH83c and later PA22’s with “Capt Johnny”, Then Air Navs PA 28’s, and lastly C172 with Bill Robo on the beach. I had got my PPL/Instructors by this time, but did not have the funds to buy a CPL. But I did eventually acquire the funds to get my CPL.
….I look back and wonder how we did it, they were glorious most enjoyable years, made possible by the fact that most staff had served in a service during the war and had that bond, this was of course before professional, when in my mind people were people and happy to be that way. We were certainly “hungry” to learn to fly and be part of ‘the dream’
****NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, WHAT WE DID WITH OUR CLOTH AIRCRAFT, AND WHAT WE ACHIEVED WAS UNIQUE. IT CAN NEVER BE DONE AGAIN.
****WE WITNESSED AS WE LIVED IT, THE DEMISE OF A WAY OF LIFE, THE END OF AN AVIATION CULTURE INCLUDING (dirty?) WHITE SCARF AND GOGGLES, BUT WE WERE PART OF IT.
****ALL THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WE LOADED WOULD HAVE LOVED OUR JOBS. THEY THOUGHT WE WERE SPECIAL PEOPLE …… AND WE LOVED IT!
Nice to hear about Norman Giroux straight from the horses mouth.
….Is it true that at the start of WWII Norman dismantled his aircraft for the duration so that the military could not commandeer them?
He also told a tale of earlier pleasure flying of DH10’s. I recall he paid £5 for the aircraft, and spare engines were £10 each!
….It would seem that you and I both went along the same path at different airfields at different times (A time before professionals!). I (officially) started loading pleasure flying aircraft in 1961(16). We had 89a Rapides G-AJKW and G-AKRS plus our Austers, and the opposition had a MkII DH84 Dragon G-ADDI. One year both firms worked together, and one day in August I loaded 40 tower flight aircraft!
….We started at 10.15 (After first fuelling, cleaning windows, changing wheels or seats) and cease fly at 19.30. We had several pilots, they got 2/6d per landing, and each pilot wanted the aircraft loading differently, some nose heavy others tail heavy, or two heavies at the door or in the second row, I carried all these load factors in my head, plus mentally working out the fuel burn to the next pilot change/refuel. The 89a’s carried 37 galls a side in order to lift 10 passengers, The Dragon also carried 10 as the starters and generators had been removed along with a heavy battery. Blackpool did not go “Radio Mandatory” till late 60’s.
….The pleasure flying Austers were always in need of looking after, I learned to change the undercarriage bungies quickly, usually on a Sunday, to keep the aircraft airborne. If a Gasket blew on the Gypsy Major in the morning, we had the head off double quick, if a copper gasket was not available I would have to use the covers off Woman's Own magazines and carefully cut out 4 round gaskets from these. Normally 4 of these on together would get you through the afternoon’s pleasure flying.
….The Auster wheels were also a big problem, as they never got maintained till a major check occurred. New pilots always popped an inner tube or two before they got the nack of taxiing fast without brakes. Then wheel bearings would collapse, you asked your passengers to hold up the Auster wing so the wheel was clear of the ground, then beat shyte out of the offending wheel to get it off. Replace it with a spare, screw up the big nut, check for end play, then pop a 4BA bolt through the axel to lock the big nut, load the passengers having thanked them, swing the prop and we were off again.
The staff called this company FREDAIR. Fredcarnoes Circus! During all this melee, I was getting my own tower flights. I also joined the ATC 177 sqdn to get AEF Air Experience Flights in Chipmunks from Woodvale.
….Sometimes we would go an away day pleasure flying, put a trestle table in one of the Dragons, G-ACIT a MkI was on line then, some chairs, money box with tickets, then off to RAF whatever. After the air show, the RAF would give us a case of beer before we departed, which we all drank on the flight home.
….As we approached the 1970’s pleasure flying was losing it’s magic and popularity, we ended up over the years using only Austers, PA22 Tri Pacers, PA28’s, a Cherokee 6 G-AWCY if we were busy, got 13(Mum/children combination) + Pilot on the 6 one day.
I then did a bit of loading on Southport beach, in the “Fox” OJH the DH83c and later PA22’s with “Capt Johnny”, Then Air Navs PA 28’s, and lastly C172 with Bill Robo on the beach. I had got my PPL/Instructors by this time, but did not have the funds to buy a CPL. But I did eventually acquire the funds to get my CPL.
….I look back and wonder how we did it, they were glorious most enjoyable years, made possible by the fact that most staff had served in a service during the war and had that bond, this was of course before professional, when in my mind people were people and happy to be that way. We were certainly “hungry” to learn to fly and be part of ‘the dream’
****NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, WHAT WE DID WITH OUR CLOTH AIRCRAFT, AND WHAT WE ACHIEVED WAS UNIQUE. IT CAN NEVER BE DONE AGAIN.
****WE WITNESSED AS WE LIVED IT, THE DEMISE OF A WAY OF LIFE, THE END OF AN AVIATION CULTURE INCLUDING (dirty?) WHITE SCARF AND GOGGLES, BUT WE WERE PART OF IT.
****ALL THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WE LOADED WOULD HAVE LOVED OUR JOBS. THEY THOUGHT WE WERE SPECIAL PEOPLE …… AND WE LOVED IT!
A most interesting thread. Thank you. It also sounds lots of fun and a million years from today's paper dominated aircraft operations. Can't imagine the paper tigers at Gatwick accepting such an operation today.
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I was invited to fly in to the Southport Airshow in 2009 in our Chippy. Here we are about to touch down on the beach, elder daughter in the back seat (Photo by and copyright of Steve Le Vien):
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"I took my daughter on her first flight from the beach on Cessna 172 G-AYRG on the 28th August 1989, she was 14 months old....my daughter, not the Cessna"
.....and now she is a cabin crew member or stewardess or whatever else they choose to call them now....
.....and now she is a cabin crew member or stewardess or whatever else they choose to call them now....
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Old Bold Pilot.
You wrote that as if it were me. Almost word for word as happened to me. Surreal.
The Avian you refer to was G-EBZM. I has some parts of it and gave these to the Manchester Museum.
The young lady you refer to from Manchester was Dorothy Blundell and I well remember her arrival on the beach in the Tiger Moth.
The engineer was George Parkes and the cashier in the hut was Eric Hamilton.
Other notables were John Baxendale who ran amock with the little Ford 8 car and killed a person walking on the strip. Pilots included Reg Adkins for Australia and Bill Waite from Bedfont. Joe Murphy (a Geordie) went on to fly the Meteors at Woodvale right up to his retirement at which point he took a pub.
Noteable visiting aircraft were G-AISM, G-AJKK and the regular beautiful red Gemini belonging to Brockhouse Engineering who had the factory in Crossens.
Who are you? You were even at KGV at the same time as me. PM please.
You wrote that as if it were me. Almost word for word as happened to me. Surreal.
The Avian you refer to was G-EBZM. I has some parts of it and gave these to the Manchester Museum.
The young lady you refer to from Manchester was Dorothy Blundell and I well remember her arrival on the beach in the Tiger Moth.
The engineer was George Parkes and the cashier in the hut was Eric Hamilton.
Other notables were John Baxendale who ran amock with the little Ford 8 car and killed a person walking on the strip. Pilots included Reg Adkins for Australia and Bill Waite from Bedfont. Joe Murphy (a Geordie) went on to fly the Meteors at Woodvale right up to his retirement at which point he took a pub.
Noteable visiting aircraft were G-AISM, G-AJKK and the regular beautiful red Gemini belonging to Brockhouse Engineering who had the factory in Crossens.
Who are you? You were even at KGV at the same time as me. PM please.
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Southport Beach
Hi, I am a newbie here, but thought you may be interested in some pics I have of my Dad Kaz Kijak who flew for Giro after the war, I remember him taking me up, he also flew an Auster for Photair. Remember sitting on my Mums knee in the Auster when the door came open in flight ! Sadly Kaz passed away this year in Australia at the ripe old age of 94. Not sure how to post jpegs on the site tho.
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Young boy that lost his arm on the beach
I was that young boy that lost his arm on the beach at Southport I was 5 years old, it was 1975, I let go of the pilots hand not my mothers hand and my prostheses does not look like anything from a science fiction film.
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My dad paid for me to have a flight from Morecambe beach (definitely not Southport!) in the very early 1960s. It was a Tripacer. I have a photo somewhere with the registration visible on the wing. That started a love affair with aeroplanes that just gets stronger.
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And before that was another Foxmoth, G-AOJH, owned by the late Harry Patterson and based at Speke. I accompanied it many times, and we set out the landing strip, and just operated. This was about 1960.
Does anyone remember the helicopter that did pleasure fling off the beach in the 70s, used to come into Woodvale for fuel?
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John Lewrey's Piper Caribbean G-ARHT (N3712Z reg usa)
Got to know John after my RAF demob in early 1972, as my parents lived in Southport. So helped paint his Landrover fire-truck ready for the pleasure flight season. He acquired Piper Caribbean G-ARHT from Shropshire Aero Club at Sleap Airfield near Wem. Had flown it myself several times as an Aero Club member from 1969 on. Overnight hangar was at Blackpool Airport. John had to abort our joining circuit one evening after pleasure flight ops, as an executive jet crashed through Pontins after apparent engine failure on take off from Squires Gate. I think it was a LearJet. A sad end to what had been a fine day.
Only found this forum last night. Great to hear all your stories. Wonderful to see the history recorded here. A tribute to John, Giro and other aviators who flew from Southport sands and no doubt hundreds of camp followers. A qualification of many of us on this forum!
Only found this forum last night. Great to hear all your stories. Wonderful to see the history recorded here. A tribute to John, Giro and other aviators who flew from Southport sands and no doubt hundreds of camp followers. A qualification of many of us on this forum!
The incident referred to at Squires Gate involved a Hansa Jet belonging to MBB from Munich, which was returning with top engineers from a visit to Warton. I believe some control locks were left in which prevented the aircraft from becoming airborne, with very sad consequences.
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Yet another first flight from Southport beach!
Crikey - what memories! I was a member of the Southport Aero-Modelling Club when I was 14 and our clubhouse was not far from the bridge over the old railway near Birkdale. I've chucked many a glider off the sand dunes there! The President was Doug Barber, who flew Meteors out of Woodvale (anyone remember him?) and Geoff ???? was our Secretary. Doug was friends with Norman, and we three members were pottering about the clubhouse, getting things ready for a competition, and to give us a break we wandered over to have a look at the Fox Moth. Next thing I know, I'm being asked if I want a flight! I couldn't believe my luck - in, off, round for 10 minutes or so and back down. It's a memory that's stayed with me all my life and was partly responsible for me becoming an Air Cadet, joining the British and Australian Air Forces, becoming a Cadet Unit Commandant in Scotland and England and - would you believe it? Marrying a member of HMQ's RAF just to finish off - although I now do some aviation research on V-bombers, Javelins, Lightnings, Canberras and Whirlwinds (ASR style!). Keeps me and my other half out of mischief. I'm delighted that so many other people have such memories of Norman and his aeroplane after all this time.
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Wallasey beach flights.
My first flight was in a Fox Moth from Wallasey Beach in Merseyside UK, as far as I can pin point it, in the late fifties. I was about ten years old and got the money, about ten bob from my mother on her understanding, I clearly said aeroplane, that it was to go to the nearby fair ground. Anything to get rid of me. Apparently she went white when ten minutes after handing over the cash a small aircraft taxied past and took off. To add to the mayhem, the pilot buzzed the chip and putt (small golf course) during the flight, where my dad was having a round. He was mad as hell when he got back, and just about blew a valve when he learnt that I was on board. Brilliant for a ten year old. I remember the flights were run by The Liverpool Students Union as a rag day fund raiser. They only managed to get off one or two before the police arrived and moved them on. I wonder does anyone else have memories of this fabulous day? Flying in that plane again is on my bucket list. Can anyone help?
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My Mum
My mum has always told me of Johnny the pilot from Southport Beach !
She knew him and flew lots of times with him from Southport to home (Squires Gate). I remember as a little boy being on the beach with them Mr cool he was, and I still know Bill to this day gr8 guys the pair of them, I can't wait for my mum to read this thread it'll bring back some memories !
She knew him and flew lots of times with him from Southport to home (Squires Gate). I remember as a little boy being on the beach with them Mr cool he was, and I still know Bill to this day gr8 guys the pair of them, I can't wait for my mum to read this thread it'll bring back some memories !
Last edited by seasider23; 1st Oct 2012 at 16:48.
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PLEASURE FLIGHT
I was in Southport for the day in 1960 with my uncle, who drove for a Warrington coach company, Shadwells, and took me out for days when I was spending some of the summer with my grandparents in Warrington. My uncle said we would do a flight, and I remember a single-engine aircraft, with the pilot wearing a coat and (I think) a trilby. My uncle was in the right-hand seat, and there were two other passengers strapped into the rear seating, with me on a sort of shelf between them with no seat belt. During the short flight, the pilot briefly killed the engine and allowed the aircraft to glide over the town before restarting and then landing on the beach.
It was great fun, but not my first flight by any means as I had crossed the Atlantic twice by plane, also some flights in the Canadian Maritime Provinces, and several Lydd-Le Touquet round trips on Silver City with my parents and car.
I would love to know the aircraft type if possible.
It was great fun, but not my first flight by any means as I had crossed the Atlantic twice by plane, also some flights in the Canadian Maritime Provinces, and several Lydd-Le Touquet round trips on Silver City with my parents and car.
I would love to know the aircraft type if possible.
