L188's worldwide
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L188's worldwide
Did Amerer stop flying them? I think they had 3? What happened? Sad to see not too many operators left in the world. Anyone know besides Atlantic and an outfit in Mexico that still flies the most beautiful airlpane ever built?
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Originally Posted by Union Jack
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=79126
And they say that nostalgia ain't what it used to be.....
And they say that nostalgia ain't what it used to be.....
This reference doesn't seem too up-to-date either, but the two Amerer Electras are now with Buffalo Airways, Yellowknife, Canada. Air Spray also has a fleet converted to fire bombers and recently acquired two more from the US as that country has now banned their use as bombers.
I don't know if the Zantop ones are still active; this site might give an answer.
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Lockheed Electra
Air Spray Limited based at Red Deer Industrial Airport (formerly RCAF Station/CFB Penhold) in Alberta, operates 10 Electras is the forest fire suppression role.
http://www.airspray.com/news.htm
Cheers...Chris
http://www.airspray.com/news.htm
Cheers...Chris
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Electra's are getting rather long in the tooth, are they not?
Not surprising that they have/are disappearing at a faster rate.
Just like another Lockheed marvel...the TriStar.
Not surprising that they have/are disappearing at a faster rate.
Just like another Lockheed marvel...the TriStar.
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Originally Posted by 411A
Electras are getting rather long in the tooth, are they not?
Unless you fly one into the ground
, and that doesn't always work anyway (Aruba, Shannon).
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411 said:
"Electra's are getting rather long in the tooth, are they not? Not surprising that they have/are disappearing at a faster rate. Just like another Lockheed marvel...the TriStar."
Turboprops can be useful when time is not an issue. Also these aircraft have proven to be durable.
Somehow over the years I have picked up that Lockheed was good on on design, but must have had a lousy marketing dept (i.e. honest - couldn't even lie about no of testing cycles, like DC did in order to win the race by a hairwidth, if that is the term).
"Electra's are getting rather long in the tooth, are they not? Not surprising that they have/are disappearing at a faster rate. Just like another Lockheed marvel...the TriStar.
" Turboprops can be useful when time is not an issue. Also these aircraft have proven to be durable.
Somehow over the years I have picked up that Lockheed was good on on design, but must have had a lousy marketing dept (i.e. honest - couldn't even lie about no of testing cycles, like DC did in order to win the race by a hairwidth, if that is the term).
Last edited by Nardi Riviera; 14th May 2007 at 10:37. Reason: Misinterpreted 411A's statement and deleted my mistake...
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Just to divert the thread even further, I flew the Eastern Shuttle WAS-NYC in around 1976 and was delighted to land up on an Electra, flying third or fourth backup. An aircraft type I never believed I would get to fly on.
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Just for NR
Analysis as to why Electras are rapidly disappearing....
1. Three crew, while at the same time having limited payload (for a three crew aeroplane) notwithstanding the insanity of the UKCAA allowing a two crew operation.
By the way, this is the same CAA (which was the ARB at the time) of allowing 44 pax seats on DC-3 aircraft, ignoring realistic emergency exit requirements.
2. Expensive engines to maintain. Propellors likewise.
3. Yes, a well built wing (after the LEAP fix) but there are other problems, as after all, the aeroplane is not just the wings.
Heavy corrosion in the keel beam is an ongoing concern, as is the general CPCP requirements of the aeroplane.
Of course, the UKCAA might be ignoring the CPCP requirements...hope not.
4. Fuel consumption.
Heavy for the amount of payload allowed.
5. Old OLD wiring, and associated components.
Let's face facts here, it really is a mid-fifties design, with all the expected high maintenance costs.
Considering all this, I'm really surprised that there are any civil Electras left in service, save for the exceptional special needs case.
Yes, like any Lockheed aeroplane, they are a delight to fly, and I flew 'em for awhile, they are, well....getting really expensive to operate.
Sad, but true.
1. Three crew, while at the same time having limited payload (for a three crew aeroplane) notwithstanding the insanity of the UKCAA allowing a two crew operation.
By the way, this is the same CAA (which was the ARB at the time) of allowing 44 pax seats on DC-3 aircraft, ignoring realistic emergency exit requirements.
2. Expensive engines to maintain. Propellors likewise.
3. Yes, a well built wing (after the LEAP fix) but there are other problems, as after all, the aeroplane is not just the wings.
Heavy corrosion in the keel beam is an ongoing concern, as is the general CPCP requirements of the aeroplane.
Of course, the UKCAA might be ignoring the CPCP requirements...hope not.
4. Fuel consumption.
Heavy for the amount of payload allowed.
5. Old OLD wiring, and associated components.
Let's face facts here, it really is a mid-fifties design, with all the expected high maintenance costs.
Considering all this, I'm really surprised that there are any civil Electras left in service, save for the exceptional special needs case.
Yes, like any Lockheed aeroplane, they are a delight to fly, and I flew 'em for awhile, they are, well....getting really expensive to operate.
Sad, but true.
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L-188
411A refers to the ARB allowing 44 seats in DC3's on the UK register.
I am of the DC3 era and I can't recollect more that 36 seats being installed in a DC3.
Which UK operator had DC3's with 44 seats fitted ??, did it have toilets and luggage bays front & rear ??
I am of the DC3 era and I can't recollect more that 36 seats being installed in a DC3.
Which UK operator had DC3's with 44 seats fitted ??, did it have toilets and luggage bays front & rear ??
If my memory serves me right, WANELA in Francistown, Botswana used to get 56 in a DC-3 and 108 in a DC-4 in the 1960s.
The seats were of brown canvas and steel tubes and one seat belt sufficed for three passengers. The punters were all headed for a 6-month stint in the mines in South Africa.
The seats were of brown canvas and steel tubes and one seat belt sufficed for three passengers. The punters were all headed for a 6-month stint in the mines in South Africa.
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Analysis as to why Electras are rapidly disappearing....
Probably expressed myself clumsily in the previous post, but it turned out to get me more than I bargained for.
Sobering information.
But alas, the world must go on.
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I always thought that Electras were rather quick and could in fact equal the block time of a jet aircraft on a short haul route. I remember in the 1960s that KLM Electras operating AMS-LHR had a scheduled time of 1 hour only, which was the same time as jet aircraft operated by the competition (BEA) on the same route. The operating economics of the Electra in those days was very favourable (which must have pleased the airline bean-counters) and I believe the aircraft's economy of operation even surpassed Lockheed's initial estimates. The real tragedy of this very fine airplane were the prop whirl-mode accidents which despite Lockheed's modification program resulted in very few additional orders.
At least in southeast England, you can still hear and see Electras (wonderful deep reverberating sound in the climb!) as they come and go from Coventry Airport en route to the continent.
At least in southeast England, you can still hear and see Electras (wonderful deep reverberating sound in the climb!) as they come and go from Coventry Airport en route to the continent.
Designed by Lockheed
Built by Boeing
Sales & Marketing by McDonnell Douglas.
So there we are. Incidentally back in the prop days things may have been a bit different. the Boeing Stratocruiser disappeared instantly the jets came along, and the Lockheed Constellation was not long after, whereas the DC-6 soldiered on for a good while (not the DC-7 though, bad engines in comparison).
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Had the good fortune to be around the Electra a lot while it was based at Oslo Airport in the 70/80’es. http://www1.airpics.com/showimg.php?imgid=92998
Still possible to enjoy the Orion occasionally, though. Unfortunately(?) not as active as during the cold war. http://www1.airpics.com/showimg.php?imgid=98427
And yeah – the sound of it!!! So many nuances. Very special aircraft.
Still possible to enjoy the Orion occasionally, though. Unfortunately(?) not as active as during the cold war. http://www1.airpics.com/showimg.php?imgid=98427
And yeah – the sound of it!!! So many nuances. Very special aircraft.
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The most beautiful aircraft ever
Yes, the two L188's that were Flying for Amerer Air of Austria have been sold to Buffalo Airways of Canada. It is on the Buffalo site now. I have written them begging for a job!, LOL. Wonder if they might buy some of the Zantop birds in Michigan USA now for parts or??? Also an airplane for sale in Miami as well. There was an L188 simulator in Seattle but do not know what came of it. At least someone is keeping these birds flying.